Getting Started

[Indy]

Hi All,

Some might know me some do not. My name is Indy, I’m playing UrU since beta 2003. (BTW I will use UrU as the name in general, just because I don’t know how the next generation will be called) I have been mostly active in the Guild Of Greeters where I still am the Grand Master. I also did some KI Python programming. I have always been interested in fan created ages but I did not get involved until now.
Now with Cyan going open source I would like to start playing around to see if I would be capable of creating my own age. I did read the GoW wiki and read some articles about creating ages. Although the articles do explain a lot I still miss a lot of basic information. I decided to ask them here, maybe they can be of use for every newbie that starts thinking of building his own age.

[1] Blender or 3DS Max?
I have never worked with these tools. I only read articles and books about them. I know I can start working with blender and try my creation but I don’t want to spend lots of time learning blender to find out that the Cyan plugin will only work with 3DS Max. Shall I work with 3DS and wait for the plugin?
[2] What are the world units?
What system units do I set my 3DS to? Meters, inches? What is 1 unit? Is it an inch? I don’t want to build an age to later find out that it is completely out of proportions. I know it can be scaled to size but maybe that will break something.
[3] Do I have to use a low polygon count?
Do I create all my models with complex smooth objects or do I have to create simple object with just a few polygons and use texture mapping to create the illusion that it is a complex object. E.g. Do I really create windows or just map a window.
[4] Can I use the object modifiers in 3DS and will they work in UrU?
What happens with an object that has the turbo smooth modifier applied to it? Will that be smooth in UrU to or will that modification be lost? (Or is this too soon to tell?)
[5] Are there any other general guidelines that need to be followed? Like what are the step heights. Can I use objects as colliders or does every object need a separate collider to prevent the character to fall through?
For most of you this is basic stuff but I rather ask first instead of using trial and error.

Thanks
Indy

[D'Lanor]

Hi Indy! Welcome to the GoW.

1. This is a dilemma we all face. Cyan's plugin only works with 3DS. Our knowledge here is focused on the GoW Blender plugin which is still far from complete. Many of the classes that Uru uses are not supported yet and development of the GoW plugin seems to have come to a halt. And at this time it does not export to MOUL/OSMO format. I guess that would make Cyan's plugin the preferred tool, if only... it was released. With Blender on the other hand you can start right now and it is free. IMO it is a must to keep developing the Blender plugin for those who cannot afford 3DS.
2. I'll leave this one for a 3DS modeler
3. Yes please! Uru easily chokes on complex models.
4. Too soon to tell. It depends on Cyan's plugin. Does it apply modifiers on export or not? But even if it applies the modifier this would most likely result in a high polygon model.
5. Do you mean step heights for stairs? Stairs always use collider ramps. Simple objects can be their own colliders, but for complex objects it is better to create separate colliders.

[Jojon]

I'll take the liberty to elaborate a litte on the answers given...


1. Blender or 3DS Max?

It actually does sound like you have some experience with 3DS and Cyan's plugin DOES indeed only work with 3DS and apparently features a great deal of WYSIWYG compatibility, which we for the most part don't have with the Blender efforts, without tradeoffs. 3DS is awfully expensive, though.

Whatever you do, objects can mostly be converted for use with either (...as can they from many other modellers). Me; I'm sticking with Blender.


2. What are the world units?

With Blender and the Alcugs/GoW plugin branches, one Blender unit equates one foot. While I'm not a developer, I'd guess this is a 1:1 export, which would make it likely this is the unit to work with in 3DS as well.


3. Do I have to use a low polygon count?

Well, you don't HAVE to, but for performance reasons it is recommended to keep the count as low as you can get away with, without it being obvious. Faces are goreaud shaded anyway and will look smooth-ish despite a low polygon count, as long as you are not concentrating too hard on the curvature of object edges - you also have some phong-like specular highlights.


4. Can I use the object modifiers in 3DS and will they work in UrU?

'Wouldn'd know -- as you surmise, we'll see once Cyan's plugin is released -- you may need to apply modifications prior to export, like
we currently do in Blender (there has been some talk about automating that, though). I wouldn't recommend using any modifiers that significantly increases polygon count, for reasons given in answer 3.


5. Are there any other general guidelines that need to be followed?

The avatar will relatively unhindered climb a 0.4 foot 90 degree incline. While visible geometry can simply be copied, for collision mesh use, it is recommended to use a separate, simpler mesh, to reduce collision calculation load. As mentioned, at stairs, usually a single rectangle is used as a ramp, climbing the slope -- the avatar doesn't properly negotiate stairs anyways (if you look in game, you'll see your avatar floating up the great stairs - I suppose this means the avatar does know how to do the moonwalk :P).

[Christian Walther]

you may need to apply modifications prior to export, like we currently do in Blender (there has been some talk about automating that, though)

If I may interject here: there has not only been talk, but there is a fully functional implementation at http://svn.guildofwriters.com/pyprp/contrib/CWalther/experimental/. I consider it refined enough (beta-quality) for a merge into the trunk by now, but I haven't received enough feedback to formally propose it.

[Jojon]

Okiii. I have been too paranoid to stray from the trunk, but maybe I'll try this one -- the hard edges, alone, should be well worth it.

I'll try findng time to actually be doing a bit of "ageing", to see whether I can provide some feedback. :)

[Indy]

Thanks for all the answers. I wished Cyan would come with some information about the plug-in. Better yet, give it to some 3D modelers to let them experiment with it and write some of the documentation/tutorials that we will need when we start.