New Interview with Rand regarding GOW and Uru's Future

[belford]

What I underlined proved that Cyan does NOT want to give the game fully away for complete community control, but give it away to an EXTENT, meaning that Cyan still wants to participate in making content WITH THE COMMUNITY.

Disagree. Simpler interpretation; Cyan will let the community do some things, but they won't let the community do other things. (We've always believed that would be the case, right?)

That doesn't mean that some areas will be under active Cyan development; it just means that some areas will be barred.

But I really have no interest in yet another "Cyan will let us do this! Cyan won't let us do that!" thread. It's tea leaf reading at best. (Haruspicy at worst. :-)

Go back to BenB's question. Imagine that there's some kind of Uru running, and you're writing Ages for it. And players are paying Cyan a small access fee to play the game. Are you okay with that?

Now imagine that a lot of players are attracted by this. A lot of money is flowing to Cyan because of your work. Are you still okay? Would you agree to let Cyan use your Ages in perpetuity for free?

Now imagine that Cyan becomes stable enough to start full-time Uru content production -- on the level of MOUL, or even on the level that was planned for 2004. Players are paying a monthly subscription. But there are still a lot of GoW Ages in there. Are you still okay with that?

(For the sake of this discussion, assume no money is flowing to GoW Writers at all. Cyan *could* set up a royalty system, but we should first consider the, not the worst case, but the least optimistic case.)

[GPNMilano]

Bedford, the way I look at it. Yes. Its just like any game with user created content. You make a level, or an object, or a world, or character, and people can download it. You're doing it because you enjoy doing it and showcasing your work. Now the distributer of said game, and its creators, are still getting money for that game, for its purchase and royalties ect. So if someone buys the game, and downloads your content, that you created as a fan for the enjoyment of other fans, do you think you should honestly get a cut of the profits for the entire game?

[Trylon]

And again we're off to our usual speculations....
Lets take care not to go too far, and keep the arguments with the facts, and avoid making assumptions about Cayan, Turner, etc., ok

[pappou]

What most of you are saying here discusses GoW participation in both Uru technology and Uru Story – by continuing, adding to, etc., that Story.

Do you really think there is anything in Rand's new revelations that suggests Cyan is happy to turn over its ownership of the Story? -- to GoW or any other entity? Retaining ownership of the Story Line means either (a) Not letting anyone tamper with it at all (as in the past); or (b) Letting out a few bits and pieces – scraps, like a Library; or a Nexus, which could still be controlled.

Seems more likely that what RAWA said back before the crash on April 4 will still be in effect. If so, then would Cyan not be thinking in terms of the fans making 'a new way' and leaving development of D'ni stuff alone?

Contrarily, the complexities of letting fans push, pull, nudge and maul the D'ni Story Line are just too radical to contemplate. No number of Cyan cops could keep that sort of entanglement under control -- if Cyan releases its strict rights.

Building a new future, making a new way, would still seem to be the controlling mantra.

With that in mind, how does what Rand has said play out?

[Jamey]

What I underlined proved that Cyan does NOT want to give the game fully away for complete community control, but give it away to an EXTENT, meaning that Cyan still wants to participate in making content WITH THE COMMUNITY.

Disagree. Simpler interpretation; Cyan will let the community do some things, but they won't let the community do other things. (We've always believed that would be the case, right?)

That doesn't mean that some areas will be under active Cyan development; it just means that some areas will be barred.

But I really have no interest in yet another "Cyan will let us do this! Cyan won't let us do that!" thread. It's tea leaf reading at best. (Haruspicy at worst.

Go back to BenB's question. Imagine that there's some kind of Uru running, and you're writing Ages for it. And players are paying Cyan a small access fee to play the game. Are you okay with that?

Now imagine that a lot of players are attracted by this. A lot of money is flowing to Cyan because of your work. Are you still okay? Would you agree to let Cyan use your Ages in perpetuity for free?

Now imagine that Cyan becomes stable enough to start full-time Uru content production -- on the level of MOUL, or even on the level that was planned for 2004. Players are paying a monthly subscription. But there are still a lot of GoW Ages in there. Are you still okay with that?

(For the sake of this discussion, assume no money is flowing to GoW Writers at all. Cyan *could* set up a royalty system, but we should first consider the, not the worst case, but the least optimistic case.)

So basically you are saying that Cyan might want to release our content to make enough money off of it, so Cyan can eventually get enough money to then release their content in addition to ours?

[GPNMilano]

Here's a thought.

If this pans out, Cyan gets the rights back to let us continue Uru on either rented servers, or our own independent ones. What version of Uru will return. Will it be UU again, with new content we create. Or will it me MOUL, with the upgraded engine, new server code etc. Because in that case our own fan created ages are now obsolete, and would have to be retooled for the new engine like all of the previous content was for MOUL.

[greendragoon]

I don't have a problem with Cyan making money off something I produce. On the contrary, my involvement in the GoW to date is because I want to aid the survival and even eventual growth of Uru. If you think about, if the situation ever got to the point where Cyan is making fair amounts of money off Uru, that would mean that our wildest hopes have come true.

[gimlet]

...let us continue Uru on ... our own independent ones. .. UU again, with new content we create. Or will it (b)e MOUL....

Actually, I can see it as both. Independent shards (as in UU) which happily host various fan ages and act as laboratories, each and every one having its own suite of ages, but no Cyan ages at all, not even relto (replace it with something like Andy's "nexus" type age or Pahts) as a common shared structure, perhaps tied into ULM.

Then also there would be a separate "official" Cyan run D'Mala like shard for the "blessed" content, which would include all Cyan ages released to date and reharmonized (to avoid two different K'Veers etc.), and would slowly add in ages from one of the independent shards (from which they would then "vanish"). If this were permitted, then Cyan could release the current server code without losing any IP, and the community could go for it with no conflicts whatsoever.

BTW, what is stopping the re-opening of the UU or ALCUGS shards? Has anyone asked Cyan if we could open a shard with NO Cyan content?

[greendragoon]

As I understand it, and I may be wrong on this, but Cyan is currently barred from distributing Uru, in any of it's forms, by the exclusive rights held by Gametap.

[Nek'rahm]

Well... I like the idea of downloaded content.

This would allow people to upload what they want and share it with who they want.

But Cyan should still have sections of the game that only they create. And I think that the greatest Writers here should also be able to have claims to certain Ages. For example, I can honestly see D'eux working on his Ages and have them publically released. Same goes for many of us here, andy, whil, chacal (with his crazy work) amongst others.

The idea of an IC Server and Fan-UU Server wouldn't work too well tho. It would spread the fanbase far and wide.

Perhaps there should be a Showcase Age? A place where all downloaded Ages rest to be visited. You can have, say, up to 30 downloaded Ages in this place and it would still give room for the Guilds and Cyan to do both IC and OOC content.

@greendragoon (saw this post as I was posting): What about Uru: ABM or Uru:CC? They have rights to that :S