Suppose we get tools from Cyan now...

[Lontahv]

Uhm...

This doesn't have any resemblance to python.

Code: Select all

pushDoorButton;
drawObject(DoorWayToHell(anchor, theta_1));
wait....
drawObject(DoorWayToHell(anchor, theta_2));
wait....
.
.
drawObject(DoorWayToHell(anchor, theta_N));

The reason that people made animations in python for so long was because the devs were too lazy to implement real anims.
Now, you just set some keyframes and ref the name of the anim and you're set. No python/api needed.

Even though pyprp seems wonky... it's better than encoding each object by hand and inserting them into a prp one by one (basically if it wasn't for pyprp you'd have to do that).

Let me clarify;

a) Plasma is not an engine based on coding things. When you want a door to move, you don't specify start, end, and time. Rather, you move the door in 3d and set keyframes. It's not just the tools... the engine is set up to have it this way.

b) We have Plasma's API in the same form that Cyan has it: Python. In this regard, we have exactly what we have.

Plasma is a very easy engine in a lot of regards. There are no .xml files littering the gamefiles (that contain things like color for each vert). The engine is very compact.

If ya feel like writing a C++ API to prp file exporter feel free. It'd actually be more work to do that rather than do what they do and use a very graphical thing (you can see the way the Cyan exporter works when you stick your head in a prp file ).

Conclusion:

Pyprp is almost a blender-ified clone of the Cyan Max plugin

and,

I really don't mean to get down on you. Looks like you've had to suffer with "python animations" . There is no more reason to use them so, your mind can be at ease.

~Lontahv

[MustardJeep]

@Tsar Hoikas

I know but I meant blueprints for the second part, you know basic resource level coding information.

[Tsar Hoikas]

you know basic resource level coding information.

No, I don't know. Can you clarify?

[Zrax]

To those who are wondering about the Plasma API and PyPRP's conformance to it, I think you perhaps don't realize how much we actually know already... I've been working on libPlasma for quite some time now, and its correctness and completeness at this point is astounding, even to me. And since the PyPRP devs are using much of the same resources for development as I'm using for libPlasma (I know at least one or two of them even use libPlasma source for reference in coding PyPRP), I doubt we'd get much improvement from whatever Cyan released... Granted, I'm not against them releasing anything, but I'm trying to be reassuring while also offering the realistic possibility that they will never release any such thing >.>. As Hoikas mentioned, the hard part is just working together with the Blender API, not with understanding Plasma. In fact, the most useful things I personally would want in terms of source code are things that Cyan wouldn't even be able to give us at all, like source code for Havok and PhysX... Anywho, like I say, just trying to stay realistic

[Chacal]

What IS different now is there is no longer a need for the devs to refrain from spreading their knowledge. Cyan asked them to stop that a few years ago, but now there is no need.

[Grogyan]

Blender has its downs, eg CSG modelling (called booleans in Blender) leaves much to be desired and used in frequently
However I find Blender very useful, and to me its very user friendly.
I did try Max 3, and hated it, too many buttons, Maya was just as difficult to get a grasp of.
I tried MilkShape, that lasted all of 15 minutes on my computer.

My hope is that Cyan will contact and work with various developers here, like the PyPrp plugin, ULM, PlasmaShop etc, these are invaluable tools, and would be nice if somehow they could support them.

EA games did support Fan Created tools for a short while for a game called Ultima Online that I once played, where they had a list of Acceptable tools to work with their game, i'm hoping that in the very least Cyan will do the same.

[Lontahv]

One of the problems with Cyan saying certain tools are "ok" is that then the tool devs have their hands tied. They might not be able to continue work on that project (for fear of doing something--adding some feature that Cyan doesn't think is ok).

[Deledrius]

What IS different now is there is no longer a need for the devs to refrain from spreading their knowledge. Cyan asked them to stop that a few years ago, but now there is no need.

Why? Did Cyan rescind their request suddenly?

AFAIK the situation in that regard has not yet changed. People will still either ignore it, or not.

[MustardJeep]

@Tsar Hoikas

Sorry misspoke...er typed.

My assumption is collectively the pyprp devs know 90% or more of plasma even though most of that knowledge is not public....

What I am hoping for is that Cyan will help with the level below plasma as a whole; You pyprp developers have done trial and error to the point you don't need general plasma help, what I have seen just hanging out is that specific information helps. (Example: Send a PM and receive from Cyan the line by line details on how to make Plasma Animation files.)

Yes I know animations are steadily improving it was just a example.


The Pyprp devs are in a place that I would not personally ever choose to be. They will catch flack on a lot of things soon, possibly too many things since the hopes of more people then the Writers hang on their "hobby". This may be the golden era for the devs where Cyan helps on a level that brings the plugin to 100% on everything that was done in Uru:CC, but in the end it will probably all be taken away again if Uru succeeds. (Sorry for that, I hope any publisher by that point sees the value Fans will have added and implements a builder program.)

So I hope blindly that everyone who is a pyprp developer asks for the details Cyan programmers can provide.

P.S. Two things....
A) you

"It's just exporting it from blender in sane way that's the issue."

me

"you know basic resource level coding information."

you

"No, I don't know. Can you clarify?"

Resource Level = Files used by other files. (In this case the files that the Plasma engine uses and the pyprp plug creates, it just looks like we were coming at it from two different directions verbally.)

B)A suggestion for the Guildmasters here - find one person now for later to request programming help from Cyan when it is a option. Lontahv just in this thread hit it you are going to have devs that don't want Cyan's help or approval out of years of habit on keeping things off Cyan's radar. Yeah if Cyan doesn't know about something they can't say no, but if Fan's really will be involved Cyan will have to start saying yes.

[Sophia]

What IS different now is there is no longer a need for the devs to refrain from spreading their knowledge. Cyan asked them to stop that a few years ago, but now there is no need.

I would imagine, if and when they do, that makes all the difference in the world... no more "hacking" (in the positive sense) but "tweaking" which is a lot easier to do
I see no reason why they would hold back information that helps build better ages... that is to everyone's benefit.