MO;UL distribution not allowed

[Lontahv]

I understand that it's important to 'make sure' that what we are doing is legal. But, it's not legal, but Cyan legal isn't concerning themselves in it which means that it's just technically illegal. If Cyan is not saying we should stop, then that's all I need to hear. Cyan doesn't want to shut us down, they just can't say it's ok for some reason.

Can't hurt to ask them once and a while to make sure they still give the 'Ummm, we can't say it's ok, but it's not non-ok' answer.

Well, the top bit of my post was about fan-tools and Cyan and ethics. Here's my view on MOUL file distribution:


IT IS UN-PARDONABLE TO DISTRIBUTE MOUL FILES!

this is all Cyan has anymore.


~Lontahv

[Tsar Hoikas]

IT IS UN-PARDONABLE TO DISTRIBUTE MOUL FILES!

So can we say that GameTap is Lucifer himself because they ran the MOULdy bread data server?

[Nek'rahm]

Mmmmmmmmmmmmm...mmmmmaybe o-O

Depends on your point of view. Agreeing completely tho, don't distribute those files. Cyan's fighting for their lives to win back rights for MOUL, and we don't need to jeopardize anything.

[Lade'e]

I'm really surprised at these kinds of conversations from people who are (presumably) smart enough to complete Myst/Uru/Cyan puzzles. (/me pokes everyone, teasingly)

If we read enough of the forums, there are some pretty obvious answers, both blatant and covert. Blatant: actual distribution of IP by Cyan is a violation of Terms. Simple and obvious. Covert: combined with the authorizations given and the "silence" of Cyan and their agents about other issues ... the message seems to be: keep doing what we're doing until they tell us otherwise. Not so simple, not quite so obvious, but there.

My personal objection to this thread (and any that contain comments via email or PM from Cyan) ... is publication of personal communication between correspondents. I consider it inappropriate to post, publicly, anything that's been communicated privately, without permission.

Just sayin'

Lade'e
(YMMV)

[Nek'rahm]

Well your name has three syllables >_>

/me punning around

You're right tho, but it's just a big header out there for those who come to the Guild and don't know anything yet.

[Paradox]

If we read enough of the forums, there are some pretty obvious answers, both blatant and covert. Blatant: actual distribution of IP by Cyan is a violation of Terms. Simple and obvious. Covert: combined with the authorizations given and the "silence" of Cyan and their agents about other issues ... the message seems to be: keep doing what we're doing until they tell us otherwise. Not so simple, not quite so obvious, but there.

The Terms of Service also say that hacking, disassembling, and reverse engineering aren't allowed. This entire group is based on hacking, disassembly, and reverse engineering.

If you have downloaded PyPRP, you have downloaded software that violates the Terms of Service.
Same goes for ULM, and ULM is probably "worse" because it modifies game files and created unauthorized scenarios and/or situations (which is also against the Terms of Service).

That said, the rule has always been (and always will be) that Cyan files are not distributed. Any thread in which files or links to files are posted will be edited or removed (The Drizzle thread had links removed because the rest of the discussion was valuable, other threads may or may not be preserved).

[Chacal]

Don't mind us, Justin, we're just grumpy old guys and we love to argue.

IT IS UN-PARDONABLE TO DISTRIBUTE MOUL FILES!
this is all Cyan has anymore.

Now that is an opinion I can respect. It's not a legal thing.

(I don't hold the naive belief that laws must be obeyed no matter what.
Maybe it's because I'm Canadian?
Laws must be obeyed when there's a good chance of actual retribution.)

[BAD]

Personally I could care less what everyone thinks about this subject. My post was intended to make it clear what this forum's policy on the subject is, and that there indeed was a lack of discussion here, because we new that information without having to ask Cyan about it.

That said it is helpful for those who may be new to this stuff and was thinking about putting up files without thinking about the legal ramifications.

This does kinda kill some of our fun though as now that there is a warning posted. We cannot catch someone and write mean PMs to chide their insolence!!!

*eh em*

Anyway, I do ask that if you are writing a post in response to a discussion on another forum, it would be in good taste to put a link to that discussion in your post so that people understand where your coming from.

[Lontahv]

Laws are ok to break if it seems to you an ethical thing to do.

Making Cyan more starving by distributing free copies of MOUL data is NOT ethical (in my opinion). That is mostly what the game's laws are made to prevent--people getting copies of game data without paying.

Hacking -- for me -- is a use of the game. As long as it's a legal copy of your game it doesn't hurt Cyan financially. As I see it, morals and law most of the time are parallel to morals. If the law says that you can't do something that you think is right, you are a criminal. It doesn't make sense to not follow your view because of the law (even though it can be useful for staying out of jail--I assume). You are made how you are made... your values are your own, and I can not condone free copies of MOUL--not because of the law--but because of my view.

So, instead of saying that I am blindly following the law... rather say that I am following my internal sense of what is right. If you end up saying the latter, you will sound very stupid indeed.

To answer a few Justin's questions about what is right and what is wrong and different view-points(this is my opinion): Judging who what is right and what is wrong--that's judging people; people's views. If someone say, steals something--it's pretty simple to everyone involved that they are in the wrong (this is because that is the average view and they are out of the bounds of normal ethics). If someone hacks a game, if most of the other people in the world think it's ok, and one person is saying it's not, then it's most likely ok for you to do.

Ok, rather long winded but, those are my views, and I'm entitled to them.

I don't mean to be grumpy at anyone, only to clarify the ideals I'm running on in this matter.


EDIT: Laws (because they are an average of ideals--good ones) are a place to get opinions on a subjects you have had not previous ones on.

~Lontahv

[pappou]

Ti's interesting how we sea lawyers tend to flock around the carcass of an enigma. But in this case, it seems likely that only sea lawyers could make sense of it. For this discussion dives head first into deep legal theory, complex moral issues and unshakable personal agendas. When you try to mix all of that into the same stew, you may feel certain of only one thing: Clarity is unlikely to emerge in the end.

As long as everyone realizes this (and i think everyone does), it does NOT follow that certain small islands of clarity fail to emerge here and there. [I love the use of double negatives. It is, somehow, so ironical, isn't it?]

One of these clarities is found in Marten's information on the Blizzard Entertainment lawsuit. If their suit succeeds, “...then you've effectively had your license revoked automatically...”

belford simply says, “Then it's a good thing he posted the reply...”, even as Lontahv says, "...those are my views, and I'm entitled to them." How can you argue with that?

Trylon opens up the problem with all public discussion, “I think it's not really about you posting this. It's more likely in the art of choosing the right sentences.”

Tsar Hoikas looks up from his labors over the scripts, to wryly observe, “So can we say that GameTap is Lucifer himself because they ran the MOULdy bread data server?” [Or, is that a rare bit of levity from the Tsar?]

Then Lade'e reminds of a clear issue we should honor, “I consider it inappropriate to post, publicly, anything that's been communicated privately, without permission.”

For me, however, the gem of all these strongly held opinions is the one teedyo left us with. It is this great enigmatic credo, most suitable for an equally enigmatic thread: “All information is good even if it's not.”