MORE on indefinite hold

[Paradox]

I'm not losing 'hope'. But as Tweek mentions, Uru just doesn't work. And I'm tired of being involved in something that doesn't work when I have no leverage to make it work. Just tired of being a spectator of something that keeps dying over and over..
I love the potential of Uru, the idea of it. But the actual thing doesn't work.

We can't sit here and gas and moan about how the system isn't perfect, and the way its constructed won't work, I agree with that. The very idea of Uru is a beautiful, unique idea, that I think will revolutionize gaming once the right system is established. Rand Miller said himself that, the idea of humans creating ages, is what would truely get the game running. We're running MORE to perfect that system, if you don't believe it'll work, stand out of the way for people it will. Because if you're truely passionate about making this game work, do everything you can to polish it until its a beautiful self-sustaining entity.

I believe Uru can and will work, this is just minor setback, whenever a door shuts on us, a bigger door opens. I say let's fix it, if you know why it won't work, let's fix what's wrong with it. Because the day we do, is the day Uru will become successful.

We can't fix it because we don't have it... Cyan won't release any code, so we can't contribute to it; and at this point we don't even have a product to start with.

[Aloys]

if you know why it won't work, let's fix what's wrong with it.

I've been doing exactly that for years, I've done as much as a fan can do, and even more; but if you're not at Cyan or inside Rand Miller's head there's only so much you can do. And I'm tired of it now.
Cyan could fix it. We can't, it's as simple as that.
It took us litterally years to get to the point where Cyan said "Ok UCC sounds really neat, we'll include that in the next version". (unfortunately that next version was supposed to be MORE). How many more years do you think it'll be before they open source the game or do UU again and hand us the whole thing?

[BAD]

It's not the fans responsibility to make the game work. Cyan is failing (I believe) because they had a huge idea they were not big enough to create correctly, or sustain. I've been saying it will be a long wait for MORE, and now I'm convinced it will never come. Sorry, but I have worked on many projects that got put on hold "indefinitely". Not a single one saw the light of day.

I suspect there will be a return to Uru before Cyan can pull it together to try making a legitimate version again.

[JWPlatt]

It took us litterally years to get to the point where Cyan said "Ok UCC sounds really neat, we'll include that in the next version". (unfortunately that next version was supposed to be MORE). How many more years do you think it'll be before they open source the game or do UU again and hand us the whole thing?

Yeah that. I've been saying the same thing - that it took Cyan five years to figure out, or agree to, what we've known all along about UCC - repeatedly on MOUL.

I've also been wondering aloud about how long it will take Cyan to figure out the inevitability about open sourcing Uru Live as the only possible future, hoping they don't resist until it's simply too late again.

I posted the following on MOUL today to summarize what I've been promoting for a while. I figure you folks might have a better grasp on how this could be put into action. The quote contains the concise outline plus a few clarifications from other posts. But I have been writing more verbose posts on the subject for some time now. There are many implications and ramifications contained herein which, with some thought, the outline should spell out for itself.

My opinion in a more concise form because I've been saying it often enough:

1. UU - No way.
2. Open source client, server, and plugin code.
3. Plasma SDK if not open source.
4. License authentication SDK to prevent open source servers from leavnig Cyan control.
5. No Cyan servers. Cyan as a data service company is a mistake. They are a game (and test) company. In lean times, you absolutely stick to your core competency.

However, the SDKs would require Cyan attention and resources to develop and finish. They don't have that ability right now, it seems. We must still wait. There is little choice. And that's what I've been saying. There will be little or no choice.


To clarify:

One live shard. Some Guilds should be allowed to have a private shard strictly for and limited to testing.

Cyan doesn't authenticate. The code Cyan licenses (in the SDK) authenticates. The fan base pays for the license through the fan entity holding the authentication license. This guarantees and protects the revenue stream from a single Uru Live shard regardless of the open source server code. Any new features to support subshards and the like are implemented by skilled fans under the open source agreement. If Cyan goes under, Rand and Tony could still use the company to collect the licensing fees. Uru Live would not sink with the ship.

Although a licensed Authentication Server SDK would still require work by Cyan, it is up-font work. Once done, an authentication server can be securely run by the fans with Cyan still in control. Cyan can avoid all the costs of running any servers at all.

All code, except maybe Plasma, if it still has proprietary value for Cyan, should be open sourced. Without a future, Uru Live has no value except as an open platform. Plasma, if not open sourced along with the plugin, could also be issued as a licensed SDK. Frankly, software technology in graphics engines gets so much better every day while Plasma stands still, I don't see the value there either except as an internal advantage to Cyan to avoid buying a third party engine for its new games.

[Grogyan]

Yeah I'll go for the single server, as long as there is one dedicated to Age building and testing of our multiplayer beta Ages

So everyone logs onto say the Maintainers shard server - story driven like MOUL was if need be
And the GoW server where anyone could also logon to to have a look see at the Ages we're making.

Yeah I see every economy that bases their own on the $US is failing too, NZ is facing the crunch too.

I still hold onto my argument that the reason why MOUL fell twice is because Cyan hasn't been following the trend of other multiplayer games for the last decade or more, many games would have long died if it weren't for fan created material, SupCom and UT both based their games on being fully modifiable by the player, Spore too

[SCGreyWolf]

This could have been avoided if they had gone the id Software method. id releases the source to their own engine with the legal stipulation that you can't use it with the retail data files unless you own them. They're still around, and they've benefited from the community being able to dip their toes in the, er, engine water... Cyan still could to do this. The Uru demo's content could serve as the base for Plasma modifications just like the Quake demo does for their engine. Do I expect this to happen? I'm not holding my breath.

[GPNMilano]

It took us litterally years to get to the point where Cyan said "Ok UCC sounds really neat, we'll include that in the next version". (unfortunately that next version was supposed to be MORE). How many more years do you think it'll be before they open source the game or do UU again and hand us the whole thing?

Yeah that. I've been saying the same thing - that it took Cyan five years to figure out, or agree to, what we've known all along about UCC - repeatedly on MOUL.

I've also been wondering aloud about how long it will take Cyan to figure out the inevitability about open sourcing Uru Live as the only possible future, hoping they don't resist until it's simply too late again.

I posted the following on MOUL today to summarize what I've been promoting for a while. I figure you folks might have a better grasp on how this could be put into action. The quote contains the concise outline plus a few clarifications from other posts. But I have been writing more verbose posts on the subject for some time now. There are many implications and ramifications contained herein which, with some thought, the outline should spell out for itself.

My opinion in a more concise form because I've been saying it often enough:

1. UU - No way.
2. Open source client, server, and plugin code.
3. Plasma SDK if not open source.
4. License authentication SDK to prevent open source servers from leavnig Cyan control.
5. No Cyan servers. Cyan as a data service company is a mistake. They are a game (and test) company. In lean times, you absolutely stick to your core competency.

However, the SDKs would require Cyan attention and resources to develop and finish. They don't have that ability right now, it seems. We must still wait. There is little choice. And that's what I've been saying. There will be little or no choice.


To clarify:

One live shard. Some Guilds should be allowed to have a private shard strictly for and limited to testing.

Cyan doesn't authenticate. The code Cyan licenses (in the SDK) authenticates. The fan base pays for the license through the fan entity holding the authentication license. This guarantees and protects the revenue stream from a single Uru Live shard regardless of the open source server code. Any new features to support subshards and the like are implemented by skilled fans under the open source agreement. If Cyan goes under, Rand and Tony could still use the company to collect the licensing fees. Uru Live would not sink with the ship.

Although a licensed Authentication Server SDK would still require work by Cyan, it is up-font work. Once done, an authentication server can be securely run by the fans with Cyan still in control. Cyan can avoid all the costs of running any servers at all.

All code, except maybe Plasma, if it still has proprietary value for Cyan, should be open sourced. Without a future, Uru Live has no value except as an open platform. Plasma, if not open sourced along with the plugin, could also be issued as a licensed SDK. Frankly, software technology in graphics engines gets so much better every day while Plasma stands still, I don't see the value there either except as an internal advantage to Cyan to avoid buying a third party engine for its new games.

I am going to say this one last time, before I start painting bill boards. At this point there is no way Cyan can open source the code for Uru. To do so would require ripping out the guts of the source code that are dependent on the PhysX engine, as that is not their IP to be releasing. Cyan employees have already stated this as one of the main reasons that they can't just open source the engine code. They have (I assume) a license with PhysX. If they open source the engine code for Uru, and release information that is NVIDIA's IP, they open themselves up to a lawsuit for breaking their license with NVIDIA PhysX (Formerly Ageia PhysX)

[Trylon]

I'm pretty sure that if they rip out the code that is PhysX dependent, and give us the code for Myst 5 that is ODE dependent, that we can join it together fairly easily.

[Nadnerb]

And I'm fairly certain it can be done entirely without their help and their code. All we really need is their permission.. and that doesn't seem to be forthcoming.

[Tweek]

Wasn't PhysX open source anyway? It was free when Cyan went for it anyway.