So, Age Creation is *gasp* Hacking? </sarcasm>

[Grogyan]

Agreed

Lock topic?

[Sophia]

Nah, I'm sure we are mature enough to agree to disagree But let the mods decide

[Chacal]

We need to stop blaming ourselves for Uru's failures.

We are the Guilt of Writers!

Agreed

Lock topic?

Er, no. This has been a very civil discussion and there is no reason to lock it.

This discussion is going in circles. I think it would be best if we all just move on. Most everyone here understands that what we are doing is in a gray area legally.

Agreed.

We will not tolerate heated arguments on this board as it distracts from the purpose of the forum. That purpose is to discuss and create tools and content for Uru. So unless this discussion moves to forward that purpose I think we can drop this issue for now.

Disagreed. I still don't understand why you're so afraid of heated discussions. This is not 2005, different people, different times.
To be honest I resent it when anyone tries to tell me what I should and should not discuss. The purpose of the forums is what its memberS (emphasis on the plural) want it to be.
If some members want to keep running in circles, it's their problem. If a thread annoys me, I'll just stop reading it.

[kaelisebonrai]

@

We need to stop blaming ourselves for Uru's failures.

We are the Guilt of Writers!

Agreed

Lock topic?

Er, no. This has been a very civil discussion and there is no reason to lock it.

This discussion is going in circles. I think it would be best if we all just move on. Most everyone here understands that what we are doing is in a gray area legally.

Agreed.

We will not tolerate heated arguments on this board as it distracts from the purpose of the forum. That purpose is to discuss and create tools and content for Uru. So unless this discussion moves to forward that purpose I think we can drop this issue for now.

Disagreed. I still don't understand why you're so afraid of heated discussions. This is not 2005, different people, different times.
To be honest I resent it when anyone tries to tell me what I should and should not discuss. The purpose of the forums is what its memberS (emphasis on the plural) want it to be.
If some members want to keep running in circles, it's their problem. If a thread annoys me, I'll just stop reading it.

I agree with all of this, personally, my point here was to show that all we're doing, new ages or not, are just as grey as any of the other "hacking" people do with uru, including that which causes much outcry amongst the D'ni Community.

Anyways, thanks to all that welcomed me, I just re-read the thread in its entirety.
I hope to be a fairly productive member of the GoW, when the time comes. =)

[Sophia]

Good mornnig (to me)... and yes, welcome! Oh we all know we're in the grey area, nothing new there! I have set my personal bounderies what I still feel is ethical and I know others think different about some things. Chagal, I am fairly new here but the fact we are not allowed to discuss anything puzzled me too. I didn't find it too heated either. Anyway, nuff said, kaelisebonrai, now that you have pointed out what we are all doing, we look forward to see you do the same!

[Justintime9]

Ok, well, I know that user KIs were hacking, but with things such as that, and age creation, cyan seems to take a neutral stance on it, and as long as they don't openly say "Hey! that's violating our rights, stop it!" I assume that they're taking the same neutral stance on it too. Of course, on some issues, their silence means that they don't know, in which case I'd be quick to notify them, and although they say "don't mistake our silence for approval", as long as they don't take a stand on it, I'll assume that we shouldn't mistake their silence for disapproval either. If they say something is not allowed, and is illegal, then I'm staying as far away from it as I can, otherwise, I'm not going to sit around saying "Oh dear, their silence does not mean approval, I don't know what to do!". In my earlier post it may have seemed that I believe cyan is perfect, and can't do anything wrong, however, I simply meant that cyan deserves our respect, and if they don't approve it, then no one has the right to use it.

[BAD]

You are misunderstanding my point.

My point is we will not tolerate immature, flaming, and/or insulting behavior. I'm sorry I feel like I have to remind everyone of that, but many people from 2005 are here now. Once I see any hint of a discussion taking a down turn, I feel I have to say something. Hopefully that will dissipate.

I guess it was a mistake to us the word heated. Heated doesn't mean intense to me. If a discussion gets intense, but remains civil, I have no problem.

Also I don't believe in locking topics unless absolutely necessary. This thread will remain open.

I also want to point out that if my text isn't green, I am speaking for myself, or for a small amount of people I have discussed the issue with. You don't have to take my suggestion if you don't want to.

I would only use the green text for official moderator messages. I know better than to state my opinion under the guise of a person in authority.

I hope no one will argue with me what are goals are on this board.

[Grogyan]

Yeah, well I suggested locking the topic as its a topic that just keeps going around in circles

[BAD]

I agree, that it is going in circles, but there is room for someone to make a valid new point. So no locky.

[Nek'rahm]

I think we need to reach a consensus on matters such as this. I've seen groups, heck, people that were family to me fall apart because of misunderstanding.

Not saying the Guilds of Uru will do the same thing, but we need to be civil. (Hate to be a nerd but,) the D'ni didn't argue over such things, they merely found a way to reach an equal resolution.

For example (italicized is my points):

"A Japanese man parks his car in his driveway every night. A neighbor parks his car across the street so that he can't back out without running into something. Still, he doesn't want to reach a conflict. It will only bring more problems. Instead, that night, the man takes a knife and slashes two tires on the man's car. The man sees the tires and understands. One slashed might be an accident, two is intentional. However, the other man agrees to help take the tires and assist the man in replacing them. This shows how he avoided conflict, yet didn't insult the other man.

My point being this. We need to come together, calmly, and just settle a few matters to rest. We need to have a small system that will allow us to take these topics and ideas and culminate them. By this, I submit a solution.

Threads such as this have already been discussed. Perhaps topics of this level of.. well... sensitivity should be moved to a special area (the Guild Summit... I don't know) that just emphasizes that these are more "major" topics for the discussion of Uru and the Guilds. Now, heck, you could even Pin these and make a seperate section here in GD. Then, if a similar topic comes up like did here, we can just have them redirected to the major one and (perhaps) lock the one just made. This encourages debate, but leaves little room for flaming and insulting as the topics would stay on cue and would be of major matters to discuss.

Everyone has an opinion. Everyone has the right to share it. Yet I agree that we cannot allow insults and such to take place in such a friendly environment. Simpler or more complex, there just needs to be a way to show everyone that we acknowledge certain topics and talk about them regularly. We don't have to have one opinion as the Guild of Writer's opinion, yet we need to have people calmly talk out the different solutions and ways of going about things.

Things such as the legality of our work, of how Uru should live again, of what our work entitles, of what the Guilds should do, and of who can do what where, these things need to be shown to everyone who comes here to A) avoid confusion, B) decrease the number of repeated-topic posts and C) minimize the chances of hurtful words being said.

C'mon guys, we're a family here. Families argue, but don't say anything you're going to regret later. "Life's not worth living when you spend it wondering what could have been."

P.S. My view on this whole matter.

*ahem* (puts on a Presidential face)

Yes, it is hacking. It is in that we're taking material and reusing it for our own use. However, Cyan themselves have no problem with it at the moment, though they probably do not wholly approve. They want the Guilds to do their thing, but legalities have put them in a bind. So yes, it's hacking. But it's the only way we can continue our work.

(removes Presidential face, returns to Hill-Billy face)

:3