Uru is OURS

General debates and discussion about the Guild of Writers and Age creation

Re: Uru is OURS

Postby J'Kla » Sun Dec 14, 2008 3:30 am

Speaking as a writer a Member of GoW and a member of GoMA I would like to see the testing shard (for the want of a better name) shared jointly between the GoMA and GoW there's so much common ground.

In addition to age conversion I have a fairly complex age in mind that involves puzzles that need two or more players to solve. I can map the complexity physically build the age with existing tools but testing with the existing setup is impossible as you can only have one player per age.

I am posting the mirror image of this post over at GoMA for their opinions.

This idea does not exclude GoW and GoMA having their own shards it just seems sensible to have the main testing shard as shared space.
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Re: Uru is OURS

Postby Trylon » Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:29 am

I fully agree
One day I ran through the cleft for the fiftieth time, and found that uru held no peace for me anymore.
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Re: Uru is OURS

Postby Metabasalt1 » Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:12 am

What hardware will be necessary for a shard or hosting an online uru game? For example, I have a hp home server that i use for backing up computers and sharing files. It runs Microsoft home server. Would that work?
How much training background in IT and computer networking would I need to setup a shard or host an online uru game?
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Re: Uru is OURS

Postby Trylon » Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:26 am

I think it's too early to tell - we haven't seen any of the server code yet....
One day I ran through the cleft for the fiftieth time, and found that uru held no peace for me anymore.
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Re: Uru is OURS

Postby Chacal » Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:11 am

It depends on what you want to do. There is much misconception about the "distributed" nature of Uru servers. This is not SETI. From the limited time and resources Cyan had to transform UU into MOUL, we can assume it is not drastically different.

Testing your own Age on your home network, with perhaps two client connections: maybe your home PC would do it. Don't expect to run the client and the servers all on the same PC though.

Running a public server means (presuming the MOUL architecture isn't too different from UU or ALcugs) running one or more auth servers which will allow players to login, one or more lobby servers that manage connections, messages, linking, etc, and one or more data servers that actually serve you the Ages you're linking into.

As you can guess: forget doing that on your setup. At most you could run a data server on a shard that's not too popular IF you have a very good and stable connection, but good luck if more than 2 or 3 players want to join an Age on your server.

For that you need more bandwidth at a more stable QoS than your average high-speed connection can provide, and more importantly no cap on total bandwidth usage. Most providers have started capping monthly usage for home connections. So a public Uru server will have to sit in a provider's datacenter.

For stability and performance, it will have to run on a server operating system, either Windows 2003 or, when porting is done, Linux or Unix. It will also have to run on some serious hardware, multiple-core CPUs with lots of RAM. It is too early to talk about 64-bits and multiple-core-aware code and OS.

Such servers need configuration and maintenance skills that require experienced server admins. All Uru servers will have to be started as services and configured for optimal use of CPU, memory and storage resources. They also needed to be monitored round the clock (well maybe not for a test server), backed up regularly, updated, patched, etc. Security is a serious concern. I have been working with an Alcugs shard owner and obviously there will be a need of an application-level firewall for detecting and filtering out packets before they can do damage, without having a performance impact. I'm thinking of the fly-mode problem here. Also, MOUL downloads all Python and SDL files from the server, in addition to the data downloads that UU and Alcugs already do. Managing the library on the servers is going to be a lot of work because each new Age will bring new files.

With all those requirements, you can expect to pay several thousands of dollars a year for each physical server in the shard. Start shopping on provider web sites and look into dedicated servers. Don't get misled by great offers on virtual servers or "virtual private servers", those won't do.
A few of us are lucky enough to have more-or-less free access to such resources, by being professionally connected to providers. The rest will have to shell out the big bucks and try to get money from players, which will bring other nightmares ("hello? This is the IRS. We'd like a talk with you").
There is always the possibility that a GSP (game server provider) would want to include Uru in its services and charge a monthly fee directly to the players. But when they'll see the market they'll run away screaming.

Hope this helps.
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Re: Uru is OURS

Postby BAD » Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:17 am

Heh,

Easy there Chacal to much reality will make peoples heads explode. ;)
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Re: Uru is OURS

Postby Sophia » Sun Dec 14, 2008 11:06 am

Trylon wrote:My main concern was that there are too many idiots our there with stupid ideas like that.

Hmm, I am never too fond of people who call others who have different ideas "idiots" and "stupid", I think you may wish to rephrase that slightly. :P
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Re: Uru is OURS

Postby Chacal » Sun Dec 14, 2008 11:13 am

BAD wrote:Heh,
Easy there Chacal to much reality will make peoples heads explode. ;)


:)
Heh, I come from the FPS world where every kid ran a "server" in his mom's basement. You would open your list of, say, BF1942 servers and there would be 16000 "servers", half of which started disappearing at 8PM, as bedtime swept over North America...

I ran the biggest real server for a while and our frustration was that serious players couldn't find us among all the clutter.
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Re: Uru is OURS

Postby Trylon » Sun Dec 14, 2008 11:26 am

Sophia wrote:
Trylon wrote:My main concern was that there are too many CENSOREDs our there with stupid ideas like that.

Hmm, I am never too fond of people who call others who have different ideas "idiots" and "stupid", I think you may wish to rephrase that slightly. :P


Sorry, didn't mean to offend anyone - the discussion on the MOUL forums just started to feel too much like meetings at my work.
(At my work we rarely have productive meetings or ones where you don't feel tired afterward)
One day I ran through the cleft for the fiftieth time, and found that uru held no peace for me anymore.
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Re: Uru is OURS

Postby Sophia » Sun Dec 14, 2008 12:57 pm

You didn't offend me, I have no opinion on the matter and I confess, I never followed the fcal discussions so I don't even know what it is :oops: I just felt sorry for the ones who might feel strongly about those things and found themselves called "idiots" :D

Eh, Trylon, call it my naughty imagination, but now that it reads "CENSORED", suddenly it sounds a WHOLE LOT nastier still :lol:
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