Guild of Writers

Here is the cleaned up chatlog from today's meeting. We got lots accomplished, so thank you to all who attended. I will be posting a copy of this on both the GoW and GoMa forums so both groups can read it. I have highlighted the meat of the conversation in red, but left the majority of the chatter there for people who may have questions that were answered during the discussions.

First topic discussion: Age bug tracking.
Decisions made: We will be using Bugzilla. The GoMa will host it, and Trylon will attempt to tie it in with the new ULM system to prevent multiple login account creations on all the various forums. Nynaveve will get the new bug system up and running with the new server. The system will be used to track Age bugs as well as PyPRP and other Writer's tools bugs, feature requests, and progress.

First Topic Show Spoiler

(03/15 13:19:35) Nynaveve: Shall we get started or wait a bit longer?
(03/15 13:19:48) Dot:: I think we should start
(03/15 13:20:16) Francesca: Yes, let's begin
(03/15 13:20:26) Trylon: Sure
(03/15 13:20:27) Nynaveve: Ok then. For the first topic, we wanted to discuss the Age bug tracking.
(03/15 13:20:51) Nynaveve: I was hoping to have Paradox here for that.
(03/15 13:21:06) : Jishin cheers for bug tracking. I've wanted that for some time.
(03/15 13:21:07) Nynaveve: As he's the GoW webmaster.
(03/15 13:21:25) Trylon: Heh - paradox doesn't have Moul access anymore
(03/15 13:21:31) Nynaveve: Oooh.
(03/15 13:21:54) Nynaveve: Well, I guess we'll have to get his thoughts on this afte we post the chat log.
(03/15 13:21:59) Dot:: Well, perhaps we'd better discuss between ourselves what is needed,
(03/15 13:22:14) Dot:: then get Paradox involved on the forum (GoW)
(03/15 13:22:25) Nynaveve: At any rate, the discussion was around who (GoMa or GoW) should host the tracking system, which tracking system to use.
(03/15 13:23:10) Nynaveve: For the most part, from a Webmaster perspective, the Bugzilla system is most temping as its setup is considerably easier than Trac.
(03/15 13:23:33) Nynaveve: Did anyone get a chance to look at the two systems and see if one of them would work better for our needs?
(03/15 13:23:48) Trylon: Not me -
(03/15 13:23:50) Dot:: I've been reading about Bugzilla.
(03/15 13:24:04) Itiseye Mee: I wouldn't know what I was lokking at
(03/15 13:24:09) Dot:: since you said that was the best one from your point of view
(03/15 13:24:19) Jishin: I haven't looked at Trac, but Bugzilla seems pretty straightforward, with the caveat that I have no sysadmin experience.
(03/15 13:24:52) Stejovis: What do these solutions do?
(03/15 13:25:02) Francesca: Didn't someone on the GoW forum favor bugzilla too?
(03/15 13:25:10) Nynaveve: Well if it comes down to it, (and it would probably be a good idea anyways), a Wiki how-to would be a good idea for the system.
(03/15 13:25:14) Stejovis: track, bugs, I know, but
(03/15 13:25:22) Stejovis: what does that actually mean?
(03/15 13:25:34) Trylon: They allow people to submit bug reports
(03/15 13:25:46) Trylon: and allow responses etc on it
(03/15 13:25:52) Nynaveve: So when Maintainers want to let a Writer know about some bugs in the Age, it simplifies the process.
(03/15 13:25:57) Stejovis: Absolutely yes on the wiki
(03/15 13:25:57) Trylon: like, when it's fixed, if it won't be fixed, etc
(03/15 13:26:04) Nynaveve: Yes.
(03/15 13:26:07) Dot:: So it's like the Cyan system?
(03/15 13:26:14) Trylon: Yeah
(03/15 13:26:16) Nynaveve: And its a bit neater and easier to use than the forum system we have setup at the moment.
(03/15 13:26:38) Dot:: I wonder whether we will still need the forum system
(03/15 13:26:46) Dot:: but for inspection reports.
(03/15 13:26:49) Nynaveve: Right.
(03/15 13:26:51) Trylon: At first glance it seem logical to have it at the maintainers site
(03/15 13:27:06) Dot:: (sort of feedback as explorers)
(03/15 13:27:09) Jishin: It would be nice to have the forum for "chatter" about the Ages, as opposed to serious bug reporting.
(03/15 13:27:09) Stejovis: Are trac or Bugzilla used while within the game?
(03/15 13:27:16) Nynaveve: I have no issues whatsoever hosting it. But I don't want the Writers to flip out because they want it on their site.
(03/15 13:27:34) Trylon: The main problem would probably wiht the membership neccesary to respond
(03/15 13:28:00) Trylon: it would mean that every writer would need to have an account on the goma bug tracker to respond to the ussues
(03/15 13:28:22) Jishin: Stejovis - you'd run the bug tracker through your web browser and record bugs as you find them. It doesn't look at the game itself, it's just a method of reporting.
(03/15 13:28:24) Nynaveve: Yes. And we'd either need someone who knows how to use the current phpBB database or give me some time to figure it out, because I'd like to just use those logins for the Bug system
(03/15 13:29:24) Nynaveve: Its possible that Paradox might be able to work with me to get the system setup with both databases. That way we won't have to have Maintainers signing up at the GoW or vice versa.
(03/15 13:29:26) Trylon: Alternatively, we could set up the new ULM database system (next topic, I know), and try to integrate it's userbase with the bugzilla database
(03/15 13:29:39) Nynaveve: Hmm.. that's a good thought, Trylon.
(03/15 13:29:53) Trylon: Not sure if it will work, but still worth checking out
(03/15 13:29:59) Nynaveve: Absolutely
(03/15 13:30:07) Dot:: Very good idea, Trylon
(03/15 13:30:47) Jishin: That sounds like something that will take some looking at, but sounds like a good idea.
(03/15 13:31:43) Trylon: I'll probably need some assitance in progamming the new server system though
(03/15 13:31:47) Nynaveve: Ok, so Bugzilla tied in with the new ULM so we don't have multiple logins.
(03/15 13:32:04) Nynaveve: I can try to help but like I mentioned, I'm a bit limited in some languages.
(03/15 13:32:16) Stejovis: It sounds then like you are leaning toward Bugzilla
(03/15 13:32:20) Trylon: ULM server backend is n PHGP
(03/15 13:32:52) Trylon: err, PHP
(03/15 13:33:01) Nynaveve: lol.. had me going for a second there
(03/15 13:33:19) Dot:: Yes, Stejovis
(03/15 13:33:22) Nynaveve: Ok. I can take a look at it. Once we work out the details about what we want to do exactly.
(03/15 13:33:48) Trylon: Any more we need to discuss on this point?
(03/15 13:34:12) Nynaveve: One more thing
(03/15 13:34:29) Nynaveve: Someone mentioned using it for tracking the PyPRP plugin and other various writing tools
(03/15 13:34:42) Jishin: Huh, that's not a bad idea.
(03/15 13:34:45) Trylon: Sounds like a good plan
(03/15 13:34:55) Trylon: Should be very easy to integrate
(03/15 13:34:56) Nynaveve: Ok. I'll add that in.
(03/15 13:35:03) Jishin: I'd recommend that we look at how Cyan modeled their bug tracker -- it works really well.
(03/15 13:35:13) Jishin: Just in terms of keeping track of all the picky details.
(03/15 13:35:17) Nynaveve: And are the Maintainer's going to host this?
(03/15 13:36:01) Trylon: It has my preference if the maintainers host ULM,
(03/15 13:36:20) Nynaveve: Ok.
(03/15 13:36:22) Trylon: so it seems logical to have the maintainers host the whole setup
(03/15 13:37:24) Dot:: But this will be so much easier for new Maintainers to work with
(03/15 13:39:56) Dot: wants to ask a question...
(03/15 13:40:01) Nynaveve: Yes ma'am
(03/15 13:40:27) Dot:: Feature requests and suggestions: can I suggest we use the forums for those
(03/15 13:40:46) Nynaveve: For Ages?
(03/15 13:40:50) Dot:: Yes
(03/15 13:41:02) Trylon: Instead of the bug trackign system?
(03/15 13:41:06) Jishin: Hmm ...
(03/15 13:41:15) Dot:: Well, they seem to be different from bugs to me
(03/15 13:41:28) Jishin: In Cyan's tracker, you could pick if it was a bug or a feature request.
(03/15 13:41:39) Dot:: Yes, but ...
(03/15 13:41:40) : Jishin used that tracker a *lot*. (;
(03/15 13:41:42) Trylon: How about just allowing both....
(03/15 13:42:09) Trylon: forums are more general, but using the tracker system would poitn it more directly at the writer
(03/15 13:42:11) Nynaveve: My concern is splitting up all that stuff into too many places. It gets confusing for Writers and Maintainers.
(03/15 13:42:45) Dot:: My concern is that we could be losing out on discussion of features
(03/15 13:42:56) Jishin: I don't see any harm in putting it *both* places? If yo uthink it's important, feature request it. If you want other eople to discuss it, also post it?
(03/15 13:43:03) Dot:: We can get some good brainstorming sessions on the forum
(03/15 13:43:06) Itiseye Mee: non maintainers opinions
(03/15 13:43:11) Nynaveve: I don't see why you can't discuss them in the forums, but put in a formal request on the tracking system
(03/15 13:43:18) Dot:: True, Itsieye
(03/15 13:43:38) Trylon: I think it would just flow naturally if you don't limit it one way or the other
(03/15 13:43:42) Francesca: i agree Nynaveve
(03/15 13:43:59) Jishin: And the more people post the request, teh better idea the Writer has of how many people want it.
(03/15 13:44:05) Nynaveve: Any other questions on this topic?
(03/15 13:44:43) Stejovis: I have a question
(03/15 13:44:53) Stejovis: how to phrase it..
(03/15 13:45:05) Stejovis: how would I know
(03/15 13:45:15) Stejovis: if a particular itme that
(03/15 13:45:23) Stejovis: is frequently reported
(03/15 13:45:31) Stejovis: and needs braoder discussion
(03/15 13:45:41) Stejovis: was having that problmem
(03/15 13:45:48) Stejovis: in other words
(03/15 13:45:55) Stejovis: will I know how often
(03/15 13:46:03) Stejovis: something I report as a bug
(03/15 13:46:07) Stejovis: or whaterver
(03/15 13:46:11) Stejovis: is seen by others
(03/15 13:46:13) Stejovis: ?
(03/15 13:46:18) Dot:: Good question
(03/15 13:46:28) Dot:: (Why I like doing it on the forum)
(03/15 13:46:29) Nynaveve: Ah, so in other words, how many other peopl are experiencing it and reporting it as well?
(03/15 13:46:34) Jishin: I don't know what level of privacy Bugzilla provides in terms of letting people see stuff / run reports.
(03/15 13:46:39) Trylon: I think bugzilla allows for tickers to be publicly viewed
(03/15 13:46:41) Jishin: That's something we should investigate.
(03/15 13:46:46) Nynaveve: I think so too, Trylon.
(03/15 13:46:57) Dot:: It will be helpful to be able to see bug reports
(03/15 13:47:08) Stejovis: I don't know that i need to see the details of every
(03/15 13:47:11) Dot:: Cyan system only allows you to see your own
(03/15 13:47:12) Stejovis: bugzilla report
(03/15 13:47:22) Stejovis: but I do think that if a number of us
(03/15 13:47:26) Stejovis: see something
(03/15 13:47:34) Stejovis: it might need more attention
(03/15 13:47:38) Nynaveve: Right.
(03/15 13:47:40) Stejovis: from us as a group
(03/15 13:48:06) Stejovis: for suggestions, and such
(03/15 13:48:08) Nynaveve: I actually believe that Bugzilla was designed for software development, which means it *should* allow public viewing of tickets or else that rather defeats the purpose of it.
(03/15 13:48:08) Dot:: Perhaps we could have a thread where we mention particular bugbears
(03/15 13:48:23) : Jishin nodsnods at Dot. Good idea.
(03/15 13:48:26) Nynaveve: Yes
(03/15 13:48:37) Stejovis: yes, that's it
(03/15 13:48:51) Dot:: Ones that are particularly annoying...
(03/15 13:49:02) Nynaveve: Ok, so we'll implement the bug system and continue using the forums for further discussion of such bugs and feature requests
(03/15 13:49:05) Dot:: like journal grammatical infelicities
(03/15 13:49:20) Jishin: This would presume still that you have to have a Bugzilla account, right? I mean, Joe Explorer shuldn't have access to Steve Writer's bugs on the fly.
(03/15 13:49:37) Nynaveve: Correct Jishin
(03/15 13:50:39) Nynaveve: Ok, moving along then. I'm trying to be sensitive to the time of all you Europeans.

Second topic discussion: ULM and its future
Decisions made: Trylon will be rewriting the ULM in the near future to attempt to make it more user friendly on both the front and back ends (upload and download), and he plans to incorporate some of the feature suggestions that have been made recently. This includes the categorization of Ages available, the ability to register Age prefixes with the Age preregistration (see next topic), a clearly readable "last modification date", a description of the Age, and linking panels. We intend to link the ULM database with the Bugzilla database, but this will take some research.

Second Topic Show Spoiler

(03/15 13:51:01) Nynaveve: The next issue is Trylon's... ULM
(03/15 13:51:10) Trylon: Yay
(03/15 13:51:15) Nynaveve: What are we going to do with it in the future?
(03/15 13:51:29) Nynaveve: We've had tons of suggestions for features
(03/15 13:51:51) Nynaveve: It seems like the GoMa will host it alongside the Bug tracker and provide space for mirrors as well.
(03/15 13:51:52) Trylon: A little status update on the rewrite:
(03/15 13:51:56) Nynaveve: Ok.
(03/15 13:52:16) Trylon: Im basically rebuilding the internal from scratch
(03/15 13:52:33) Trylon: Currently I'm working on a libary that will finally allow link panels
(03/15 13:53:02) Trylon: That one goes slowly, as it requires building code that interprets prp files, and those are pretty complex in their simplicity
(03/15 13:53:54) Trylon: My plan is to make it more user-friendly, and to allow various categories among others
(03/15 13:54:19) Trylon: Another idea is to have the library server act as a default download host for files
(03/15 13:54:44) Trylon: downloading is user-friendly, uploading is so not at the moment
(03/15 13:55:24) Trylon: Nynaveve, would the GoMa webspace have room to act as a default file host>
(03/15 13:55:29) Trylon: ?
(03/15 13:55:32) Nynaveve: Yes.
(03/15 13:55:53) Trylon: What are your limits currently?
(03/15 13:55:54) Nynaveve: That's my plan. Right now we've got about 160GB of space that'll be on the new server
(03/15 13:56:16) Trylon: That's pretty much
(03/15 13:56:38) Trylon: (and probably filled sooner than you think, if multiple versions are stored as well...)
(03/15 13:57:00) Trylon: And the bandwidth?
(03/15 13:57:09) Nynaveve: Yes, that's what I suspect Trylon. But its easy to get a new HDD if we need it.
(03/15 13:57:29) Nynaveve: Bandwidth will be my only concern... my upload allowance is only 786kbs
(03/15 13:57:39) Nynaveve: er...768?
(03/15 13:57:44) Nynaveve: Somewhere up there.
(03/15 13:58:27) Trylon: mine is around 380 kbps, or something
(03/15 13:58:32) Nynaveve: Yeah, it is. But it shouldn't be an issue unless we've got too many people uploading to the ULM all at once.
(03/15 13:58:44) Trylon: ok
(03/15 13:59:35) Trylon: how about when a new versino of an age comes out? would it be neccesary to keep the old version, or can the old version be removed in favour of the new one?
(03/15 13:59:55) Dot:: Might be safer to include the old one for a while
(03/15 13:59:58) Nynaveve: I vote for removing the old version, unless its something special, such as a Christmas version of the Age.
(03/15 14:00:01) Trylon: I prefer to remove the old version, for storage issues
(03/15 14:00:21) Dot:: What if the new version causes serious crash problems
(03/15 14:00:27) Dot:: and the old one doesn't
(03/15 14:00:39) Jishin: Then the new one needs to be taken down until it's fixed.
(03/15 14:00:40) Trylon: good point
(03/15 14:00:44) Nynaveve: Then I'd say its up to the Writer to keep an older version available and upload to the ULM if necessary.
(03/15 14:00:49) Dot:: Won't you want to keep the old one until you sort it out?
(03/15 14:00:59) Nynaveve: But only one version at a time on the server I think.
(03/15 14:01:01) Stejovis: Question
(03/15 14:01:02) Francesca: i always keep the old version stored until I have tested the new one
(03/15 14:01:04) Dot:: But what if hte writer doesn't know it
(03/15 14:01:12) Stejovis: If I download a version to my system
(03/15 14:01:19) Trylon: perhaps some periodic cleanup - or like, when the new version is marked "safe " by the maintainers, the old versinos get removed
(03/15 14:01:28) Nynaveve: Oh, good idea Trylon.
(03/15 14:01:30) Stejovis: can't I archive it on my system
(03/15 14:01:35) Stejovis: if i choose?
(03/15 14:01:41) Dot:: Yes, Stejovis, you can
(03/15 14:02:07) Stejovis: Then i don't see why we have to worry about holding on to versions
(03/15 14:02:22) Dot:: Well, it's safer to keep a central version
(03/15 14:02:23) Stejovis: I have a swappable drive setup
(03/15 14:02:33) Stejovis: that I use 500Gb drives with
(03/15 14:02:40) Trylon: having multiple versions available for download can cause confusion for some people
(03/15 14:02:44) Stejovis: and I can easily archive our stuff
(03/15 14:03:48) Stejovis: The point is
(03/15 14:04:04) Stejovis: we don't have to worry about space limits
(03/15 14:04:10) Stejovis: on our archive
(03/15 14:04:23) Dot:: Great!
(03/15 14:04:31) Nynaveve: If you're willing to take over the archive, then that's fantastic!
(03/15 14:04:53) Stejovis: I don't know about "take over" but i sure will help
(03/15 14:04:54) Dot:: And it's good to be on a separate site too
(03/15 14:04:58) Stejovis: where i can
(03/15 14:05:00) Nynaveve: Oh, well, storage anyways.
(03/15 14:05:34) Trylon: As ULM is basicalyl a writer/maintianer joint venture, are there any maintainers willing to assist me with it. - even only for tossing ideas around once in a while?
(03/15 14:05:51) : Nynaveve will do what she can. ^_^
(03/15 14:06:15) Stejovis: I'm clueless
(03/15 14:06:28) : Jishin will listen in on ULM stuff but is unsure that she's the best for it. I'm not a sysadmin, nor am I a writer-type ... yet.
(03/15 14:06:44) Dot:: I'm just a bug hunter...
(03/15 14:06:52) : Francesca agrees with Jishin
(03/15 14:06:57) Nynaveve: We'll also put out the call for help on the GoMa forum. I know we've had some people sign up who said they've got some programming skill.
(03/15 14:07:04) Trylon: cool
(03/15 14:07:15) Jishin: I am intending to do some learning with the writers' stuff, but haven't had a serious opportunity.
(03/15 14:07:26) Trylon: I have a feelign this project is slowly starting out to be a little big for just one guy
(03/15 14:07:55) : Jishin nodsnods. Especially as I was about to ask you if we could add some version tracking to it, if it doens't have it already.
(03/15 14:08:28) Trylon: what do you mean by version tacking exactly (as it does have something resamplbing that)?
(03/15 14:08:38) Stejovis: ULM does monitor versions already, doesn't it?
(03/15 14:08:44) Trylon: It does
(03/15 14:09:16) Jishin: If the ULM checks to see that all of your files are there from the previous version, that's probably OK.
(03/15 14:09:24) Stejovis: yeah. but the two ULMs do not have the same sets of versions
(03/15 14:09:40) Trylon: there should be just one ulm in the future
(03/15 14:09:41) Nynaveve: Right, that's why we're going to conslidate them.
(03/15 14:10:17) Trylon: Basically, I want different categories for ages
(03/15 14:10:41) Nynaveve: Trylon, are you looking at the "WIPs, Archives, and Maintainer Approved" suggestions?
(03/15 14:10:51) Trylon: yeah, a bit
(03/15 14:11:20) Trylon: but I think that approval and categories should be separated
(03/15 14:11:30) Nynaveve: Yes, so do I.
(03/15 14:11:38) Trylon: like both "age state" and "age category"
(03/15 14:11:53) Trylon: And a clearly readable "last modifcation data "
(03/15 14:11:56) Trylon: err, date
(03/15 14:12:35) Francesca: Sounds good
(03/15 14:12:36) Nynaveve: What would you use for age categories?
(03/15 14:13:11) Trylon: not sure yet - maybe something like "garden", "adventure", "a
(03/15 14:13:11) Stejovis: Something that signals the degree of completion?
(03/15 14:13:20) Trylon: more like the type of age
(03/15 14:13:35) Dot:: Why would that be important?
(03/15 14:14:02) Trylon: when we get more and more ages, it becomes practical to sort them out
(03/15 14:14:10) Stejovis: Age type or degree of completion, Dot?
(03/15 14:14:14) Trylon: maybe "garden ", and "adventure " aren't the best choices
(03/15 14:14:19) Nynaveve: Yes. We have something started like that on the GoMa forum, but its kinda just hanging there.
(03/15 14:14:25) Jishin: It would be nice to have a box where you could read a description of the Age before you download it, too.
(03/15 14:14:34) Dot:: Yes, definitely
(03/15 14:14:46) Francesca: Yes, that would be nice
(03/15 14:14:48) Trylon: Oh, another question:
(03/15 14:14:52) Nynaveve: Yup
(03/15 14:14:54) Jishin: Or perhaps a screenshot or something.
(03/15 14:15:14) Trylon: Would it be a requirement for ULM to run on windows 98 SE, or would it be ok if it's minimum requiremetns are windows XP?
(03/15 14:15:37) : Jishin is running XP, so she's OK with XP. (;
(03/15 14:16:44) Trylon: there is a new version of Visual C# out (language the client is programmed in), but that has winXP as aminimum
(03/15 14:17:01) Nynaveve: I was gonna say, XP because its almost outdated, so I'm not sure WHO would be using 98 still
(03/15 14:17:04) Dot:: I would say WinXP min

Third topic discussion: Age prefix registration
Decisions made: Trylon will attempt to implement this with the new ULM so that when an Age is preregistered, it is given a prefix. We will pick up at the 10,000 mark to keep any contamination from happening with the Alcugs list. The list at Alcugs will remain where it is as an archive and we will simply start a new one with the ULM. This avoids any issues that may arise. Trylon would also like to implement file prefixing to prevent any Age files from getting mixed up. The GoMa will be administrating the ULM once it is loaded on the server, and we are looking for volunteers to help with that, as well as helping Trylon with the new version.

Third Topic Show Spoiler

(03/15 14:19:56) Trylon: How about going to the final topic? Age sequence prefixing
(03/15 14:20:05) Nynaveve: In addition to all this jazz, the third point is the age prefix registration and whether we should include that with all this, since there is some rough area with Almlys.
(03/15 14:20:09) Jishin: I would like to know what that means, Trylon.
(03/15 14:21:00) Trylon: Every age needs a unique number, called the "sequence prefix "
(03/15 14:21:10) Trylon: that number makes every prp file unique
(03/15 14:21:26) Trylon: if there are two ages that have the same number, uru will crash
(03/15 14:21:58) Trylon: furthermore, every age needs to have it's own unique filenames
(03/15 14:22:17) Trylon: in order to avoid overwriting other files
(03/15 14:22:43) Trylon: the latter point is newly brought up
(03/15 14:23:01) Trylon: but the first poitn was "addressed" quite a while ago
(03/15 14:23:15) Trylon: there is a crude registry of ages and numbers on alcugs
(03/15 14:23:28) Trylon: it's just a wiki page anytone (that is registered) can edit
(03/15 14:23:34) Trylon: but it's outdated
(03/15 14:24:15) Trylon: at least having it on a separate site is an outdated idea, and I'm not sure that all the ages that are in there are actuall ages that are in progress
(03/15 14:24:31) Trylon: alcugs is the project that started the age writing plugin
(03/15 14:24:51) Trylon: now, that page only goes to numer 9999
(03/15 14:25:20) Dot:: Oh, so you are running out of numbers?
(03/15 14:25:23) Trylon: and currently the ulm.hbyte.net ULM gives out unique sequence prefixes above 10000
(03/15 14:25:33) Trylon: (no, we can go to about 80000 if I recall correctly
(03/15 14:26:49) Nynaveve: Its not so much a matter of running out of numbers as it is a matter of consolidating all the records to one place.
(03/15 14:26:55) Trylon: exactly
(03/15 14:27:04) Jishin: Yeah, if we get to 80K Ages I'll be jazzed. (;
(03/15 14:27:22) Trylon: it's a binary number that can be represented in any form
(03/15 14:27:54) Nynaveve: Anywho, what we're looking for is a way/place to keep track of all these.
(03/15 14:27:56) Stejovis: okay, I guess i'm not getting the problem?
(03/15 14:28:10) Trylon: Currently, the concensus at the GoW seems to be to leave the alcugs one for what it is
(03/15 14:28:17) Jishin: The problem is simply to keep people from using the same numbers and put all the numbers in one spot.
(03/15 14:28:22) Trylon: and to have ULM issue new numbers above 10000
(03/15 14:28:27) Nynaveve: In other words, Alcugs will become an archive.
(03/15 14:28:54) Trylon: The problem is that "officially" there is still a version of pyprp developed at alcugs
(03/15 14:29:00) Trylon: by almlys himself
(03/15 14:29:26) Trylon: the alcugs site is almlys's, and we don't exactly have the right to close that one down
(03/15 14:29:50) Trylon: the solution presented above neatly circumvents any problems
(03/15 14:32:58) Jishin: I think Trylon basically has the right idea. The ULM issues numbers above alcugs, and we just don't worry about it.
(03/15 14:33:08) Dot:: Yes, agreed
(03/15 14:33:16) Stejovis: Right
(03/15 14:33:27) Trylon: I thing that the issuing of numbers should be integrated wiht the age preregistration though
(03/15 14:33:30) Stejovis: he stops at 4 digits, so we start at 5
(03/15 14:33:35) Trylon: yeah
(03/15 14:33:50) Nynaveve: Yes.
(03/15 14:34:20) Nynaveve: And integrating with the preregistration would be great, but we need to make sure that everyon's willing to use the ULM. otherwise we will have to keep another list available.
(03/15 14:35:40) Trylon: and some filename prefix registration too
(03/15 14:35:42) Jishin: I think if the GoW and GoMa are supporting the ULM and this method of registration, it won't be an issue.
(03/15 14:35:56) Trylon: I think ULM is fully supported by both parties
(03/15 14:36:01) Nynaveve: Ok.
(03/15 14:37:32) Trylon: but it does need some admins
(03/15 14:37:45) Trylon: which I think is an excellent maintainer job
(03/15 14:37:50) Nynaveve: Agreed
(03/15 14:38:25) Trylon: entries should be accepted by default
(03/15 14:38:43) Trylon: file name and sequence prefix compatiblity can be fully automated
(03/15 14:41:42) Nynaveve: Ok then guys. I think its time to wrap up so our European friends here can get some Zzz's
(03/15 14:42:42) Nynaveve: Okie dokie. Great meeting all.
(03/15 14:42:50) Jishin: Good meeting, folks. I htink we got lots accomplished!
(03/15 14:42:55) Dot:: TY Nyn and Trylon
(03/15 14:42:57) Nynaveve: Thanks for coming. I'll post the chat log on both forums in a bit, and then post a cleaned up version a little later.
(03/15 14:43:00) Dot:: and everyone too

Mod Note: Colours made it a bit hard on the eyes, I think bold should provide enough distinction here.

sweet ^_^

This should really help things along in the coming weeks and months.

Dang I missed it.

great to see forward momentum

Grogyan wrote:Dang I missed it.

great to see forward momentum

Very good to see it.

I just hope that sometime in the future things turn out okay

What the..? When and where was this meeting annnounced???

Its been in the "Where to track age issues thread"... which I suppose wasn't very obvious. Sorry.

- I wonder if Bugzilla and PhpBB can be made to use a LDAP server for authentication?
(yes I know I could look it up as I admin some phpBB forums already).

Because we could have a single LDAP directory and both (and ULM) could use it for authentication.
Some LDAP directories are free and simple to set up (such as Novell eDirectory).

- If this is hosted on GoMa, then GoW should receive a regular backup, and vice-versa. We may be doing this for several years, and nothing is sure after a few months. Look at all that happened between 2004 and 2008 in the Writer community. We must never lose data.

- For god's sake forget about Windows 98!

Good idea Chacal. I'll try to look into the LDAP server today, but I will be starting to put together the new GoMa server so may not have a chance. If you have some information that would be helpful, please let me know! Thanks.

I do have lots of information about LDAP, it is a tool of the trade for me. The subject is vast and complex though, so we'll have to find some precise questions.

Usually LDAP compatibility is something you can switch to later on, after your system is stable. Sometimes, such as for Unix and Linux computers, it is a configuration option and the required modules are already available.

Bulletin boards such as phpBB may not be LDAP-compatible, because there is not a lot of serious work done on those systems; they are not much in use in the industry.

For custom systems such as ULM, it is easier because there are readily-available LDAP libraries for all programming languages.

Using LDAP is usually easier and more secure than developing your own user database and user management logic.