Leadership Poll

[Simon_Bitdiddle]

We shouldn't implement any sort of hierarchy when the workflow still is in such a state of flux.

When we have a better idea what sort of bureaucracy that would actually facilitate the building of Ages and the corrilary flavortext to go along with it, perhaps that would be a better time to implement something.

[Pryftan]

That's another really frustrating aspect of trying to organize the Guild - "We'll do it when we're ready, when the infrastructure exists, blah, blah."

This is the way to set up the infrastructure and figure out how best to organize ourselves. We need to try something and see if it works.

Most of our time is spent talking about what we can't do because Cyan isn't ready or the explorers aren't ready or the tools don't exist.. this IS something I feel very strongly that we are ready for, and once it's in place the council or grandmaster will have a lot of ability to inspire us to move forward at a much more successful pace.

(Also a little frustrating is this common pattern where many people agree on something, so somebody is bold enough to take initiative and try to make something for them to rally around, and it's not until then that people come out to yell about how it's too early and unwise. I know it's not intentional and I'm sorry my frustration is showing through so genuinely, but I can't help it. Dovahn posted a really nice charter and I think we should be discussing it.)

[Nadnerb]

If everybody's fixated on something, what's the harm in setting it up?

I'm certainly not fixated on it. I wonder how many more aren't?

Most people want a system like this.

Back this up with some facts. Yes, the poll in this thread says something. Specifically it says "Little". Compare the total votes to the total registered users. I voted for that myself, but like Simon said, it's not necessary yet. When it is, we'll know.

Once it's set up we'll get back to Age Building and we'll do it better and more focused than we could have before.

Why will having a council make anyone do better work?

I haven't stopped work on Tromegahl, by the way. I'm not experienced enough yet to do the kind of work you can do. But I'm getting better.

You don't have to do crazy blender work. You can draw detailed pictures, (modelers love detailed pictures, by the way) or if not that, then try just describing things to people who can, they'll certainly appreciate it.

Trying to lend a hand to the organization process has been exceedingly frustrating due to our inability to agree, or at the LEAST, defer to majority opinion. Most agree we should have a council. Let's make a council.

If there's resistance, than whatever is being resisted probably isn't being seen as "lending a hand". Provide some pressing need for this to happen quickly, and you'll get better response.

"We'll do it when we're ready, when the infrastructure exists, blah, blah."

Not when the infrastructure exists. When it's needed.

the council or grandmaster will have a lot of ability to inspire us to move forward at a much more successful pace.

The concept art threads have inspired me and probably others, a lot more than any council will.

I don't see why we're arguing though. I've agreed that we should probably have a "Cyan council".

[Pryftan]

I'm certainly not fixated on it. I wonder how many more aren't?

I was just quoting you. "Seriously, what is everyone's fixation on elections?"

Back this up with some facts. Yes, the poll in this thread says something. Specifically it says "Little". Compare the total votes to the total registered users. I voted for that myself, but like Simon said, it's not necessary yet. When it is, we'll know.

It's representative. I know the poll hasn't been going long. But it represents the direction people would like to move in. I don't see the argument for it being unnecessary as opposed to necessary.

Why will having a council make anyone do better work?

Focused work, focused work. I explained how in my original description. We need to devote our talent to the priorities of the Guild. The idea of the council is that we are a bunch of artists, and as artists, we have our own desires and passions as to what we want to accomplish. But there also needs to be someone looking out for the interests of the Guild. It is in the Guild's interest that we focus on a Showcase Age, as we seem to agree. But people won't be as passionate about it because it's not their brainchild Age they've been dreaming of for years.

You don't have to do crazy blender work. You can draw detailed pictures, (modelers love detailed pictures, by the way) or if not that, then try just describing things to people who can, they'll certainly appreciate it.

I wish I could draw! That'd be nice. I can write, but I want to really get involved in things, so I'm learning to model. That's my way of moving forward with Age Building.

If there's resistance, than whatever is being resisted probably isn't being seen as "lending a hand". Provide some pressing need for this to happen quickly, and you'll get better response.

Here's a pressing need: we need a Showcase Age. It's been over a month and there are too many ideas without one central concept everybody's getting behind. I don't think it's wise to wait around for inspiration to hit a random artist. I mean it could happen, but it'd be nicer if a council talked over the current ideas and threw their support behind a specific one. That way people would start working on it and it would arise to be as good as any inspiration.

Not when the infrastructure exists. When it's needed.

See above.

The concept art threads have inspired me and probably others, a lot more than any council will.

Art inspires artistic vision; we have plenty of that and more is always good. I'm talking about the inspiration of setting specific goals for us as a Guild to strive for. Making a Showcase Age isn't a far away and distant goal, it's certainly possible with our current resources if we just had a little direction.

[belford]

"Most of our time is spent talking about what we can't do because Cyan isn't ready or the explorers aren't ready or the tools don't exist..."

There is, indeed, a distinct *lack* of complaining about what we can't do because we have no Guild Council.

I take that as a hint.

[Pryftan]

So we should base our organization on what we complain about?

The only point I was making was to say that we're not moving forward as a Guild, and everybody has various reasons. I think it's because we have a lack of leadership.

[Simon_Bitdiddle]

I'd suggest that we backburner arranging a council or leadership position.

There's no pressing need at this time, leaders will develop without hierarchy, and if there is a particular function that needs addressing, there is no reason why the entire Guild shouldn't weigh in on it.

[Pryftan]

It's not reasonable to expect the entire Guild to way in on "Which of these awesome concepts should we build as our 'Showcase Age'". People have their own passions and their own visions as to what it should be. There needs to be a final say in some sense and I don't want it to come from me or BAD just because our names are bold and green. ;P

[Dovahn]

<snip> leaders will develop without hierarchy, <snip>

THe only part of this that concerns me (and perhaps it isn't significant) is if one person decides to take control of a project, demands that various changes be made, and rejects everyone's ideas. Though this isn't binding (one can just ignore them, after all) it would kind of lower the morale and focus of that project.

[Nadnerb]

one person decides to take control of a project, demands that various changes be made, and rejects everyone's ideas. Though this isn't binding (one can just ignore them, after all) it would kind of lower the morale and focus of that project.

An elected leader could perform the same actions just as effectively as an unelected one.