Speaking of leadership...

[Goofy]

Heh I'll check it from time to time, but I need premission to clear the imager when its needed. I'm there right now. It has mostly pictures and 2 text information. I added one with the websites address and another request not to add Ki pictures to the imager.

But it takes it so long to get to them its insane. Someone added pictures of the yeesha visit.

My Ki# 10102877 Salerene

Edit to add: I just had a thought of a new position "Caretaker of the Guild hall". This person would keep the hall clean and make sure the imager keeps a web address of the guild on the imager at all times. It could also be caretaker/greeter.

[Trylon]

Again, I don't understand the argument against elections. I mean, you can argue they're unnecessary all you want, but as for them being a bad thing.. I just don't see it. If you think they're simply unnecessary, just let the people who want them carry them out, and then we'll have a system that works just like you want it to only with elected officials instead of volunteers. There's no difference if you think elections aren't necessary.

Well, on the other hand there are two principles working against using a (fairly complex) election system when it is not neccessary:
- The KISS principle, keep it stupid simple. Which works in engineering as well as in social engineering. Overcomplicate matters, and things can go wrong. Murphy's law even states that it will go wrong, but Murphy's been known to turn a blind eye once in a while
- Occams razor, which states that the explanation with the fewest assumption should always be followed, underlines the importance of keeping things simple.

Two points a Nomination->Campaining->Election system can go wrong about in this case:
- Nomination and Campaigning take time. Time that cannot be used for more useful things. Furthermore, the Campaining currently can have little to go on, if no current projects are available. Add to that that people who are busy with important work (our core business), and could make good candidates, will probably have no desire to do a campaigning, and the whole process of Campaining becomes highly debatable.
- The system runs a high risk of becoming a popularity contest, especially if the people who could do a good job, have no desire to enter because they have no desire for campaigning.
(Yeah, i know the points overlap to a certain degree)

In the other thread about this subject, I've proposed an alternative process, which is based more on a corporate or society/club model

[Pryftan]

Well again, you're associating "campaining" with "elections". I know we're crazy Americans, but I personally am not making that association ;p

Campaigns have problems. But a process in which the Guild sets up a leader instead of waiting for people to take power that may or may not be fit can be kept simple and constructive, and can certainly be done without making people campaign.

[Nadnerb]

Well again, you're associating "campaining" with "elections". I know we're crazy Americans, but I personally am not making that association.

Aside from the fact that your posts do make up the majority of this discussion, you are not the only person other posters may be responding to. Others have posted, (albeit in other threads) and used the word "campaign"

[BAD]

I think arguing among ourselves wastes the most amount of time.

Only about 5 or 6 people are debating this issue, and no one seems to want to commit to any specific point.

So new idea.

Lets forget what we "think" will happen and make a list of jobs that need to be filled right now. Let's not rush into this either. I propose those interested, take a break for a few hours or even a day, and think about what we need done organizationally. Then post your ideas.

Once we have a list of jobs that we need filled, we can then move on to how we should fill those rolls.

How does that sound?

[Trylon]

Well again, you're associating "campaining" with "elections". I know we're crazy Americans, but I personally am not making that association ;p

Campaigns have problems. But a process in which the Guild sets up a leader instead of waiting for people to take power that may or may not be fit can be kept simple and constructive, and can certainly be done without making people campaign.

Okay, glad to know we're on the same side here
Some people wère making the association though, as belford pointed out, and it was unclear to me who was and who wasn't .

@Bad: Exellent plan

[teedyo]

Yeah, I know political campaigning leaves a sour taste in one's mouth; it's all 'sex, lies and videotape'. Campaigning is simply a method to get to know candidates, nominees and potential victims and see their viewpoints. Curiously much like this discussion. I just wish that more of the board's members were taking part in it.

If people agree with what someone believes or likes what he or she has done; it's likely they would vote for this person. Ok, maybe that makes it a 'popularity contest'. Do you really think people will support someone they don't like or don't feel is capable of performing the duties of this council? An unpopularity contest?

I'm not trying to push campaigning; my comment in the referenced post was related to Trylon's post earlier in the thread. I do think it's fine if people want to campaign.

Maybe we should forgo any sort of leadership body and stay totally democratic/anarchist at this time. I do truly believe that future dealings with Cyan will require some form of figurehead(s). Who would they speak with otherwise? I suppose we could just 'delegate' a single contact for this purpose.

I think we should plan for this future and get a process into place. It doesn't need to be today or tomorrow or even next month. It should however, be soon enough that if we find it doesn't work; we'll still have time to sort out it's shortcomings and try again. We may have months or we may have years. Without any projections from Cyan, we just don't know. Early tends to be better than late.

[Jojon]

I do truly believe that future dealings with Cyan will require some form of figurehead(s). Who would they speak with otherwise? I suppose we could just 'delegate' a single contact for this purpose.

Well, whether we start up a bureaucracy of any weight or lack thereof, or not; when Cyan decides to speak with us, I am sure they will first of all identfy (..or have done so already, more likely [hi, tweek? :7]) the doers and enablers and talk to them first (that would first and foremost be the developers and forum admins).