A suggestion.....

General debates and discussion about the Guild of Writers and Age creation

Re: A suggestion.....

Postby Nadnerb » Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:20 am

Perhaps once the forums merge is done, we could get someone to transfer all of the age building related contents of the alcugs wiki to a local wiki, and do the rework here?
Image
Live KI: 34914 MOULa KI: 23247 Gehn KI: 11588 Available Ages: TunnelDemo3, BoxAge, Odema
Nadnerb
 
Posts: 1057
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:01 pm
Location: US (Eastern Time)

Re: A suggestion.....

Postby Trylon » Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:47 am

I totally agree with the need of a GoW wiki.

Fortunately in the mean time, updates can still be done on the alcugs wiki, as wiki articles can simply be transferred when we have a GoW wiki.
One day I ran through the cleft for the fiftieth time, and found that uru held no peace for me anymore.
User avatar
Trylon
 
Posts: 1446
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:08 pm
Location: Gone from Uru

Re: A suggestion.....

Postby Aloys » Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:01 am

I think having a Wiki here definitely sound like the thing to do, plus a cool thing about Wikis is that's it's easy to transfer stuff around.
BTW who owns/administrate the GoW server? And more important; would it be easy to setup a wiki on it?
User avatar
Aloys
 
Posts: 1968
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:57 pm
Location: France (GMT +1)

Re: A suggestion.....

Postby mar » Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:24 pm

I think a Wiki is essentials especialy for the new people.

I can make some time free to help setting up a Wiki.

Only I have this time after 3 januari 2008. Because the month december I am on holiday in Cambodja. Further, I have no experience in setting up a Wiki so I can not organized that. Only helping with thinks to do.
So please tell me if I can help :!: :!: :!:


Mar
User avatar
mar
 
Posts: 182
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 8:04 am

Re: A suggestion.....

Postby Chacal » Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:11 pm

/groan
/me hates wikis

If a wiki is easier to transfer, make sure we have backup copies on other servers that are automatically kept up-to-date. My greatest fear about community-managed on-line content is the risk of sudden disappearance if someone forgets to pay a bill or decides to get rid of the whole thing. Remember some events in UO and AB dating back a few years...

Also make sure everything is contained in the wiki database, with no link to external content such as images.
Chacal


"The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is an attribute of the strong."
-- Mahatma Gandhi
User avatar
Chacal
 
Posts: 2508
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:45 pm
Location: Quebec, Canada

Re: A suggestion.....

Postby Aloys » Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:29 pm

Why do you hate wikis?

(and yes, I think all those that were there remember well what happened on AB and UO.. :( But mainaining servers is not always simple, or free.)
User avatar
Aloys
 
Posts: 1968
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:57 pm
Location: France (GMT +1)

Re: A suggestion.....

Postby BAD » Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:10 pm

Kato is running this board ATM. I believe some of the other H'uru studio members also have access to the admin account, but so far they have been extremely shy with using it.

They are all very busy people, and I think if we want something done from them, we are going to have to organize a structured way for them to see requests.

I had always thought a Wiki or some other form of information site was going to be built. Is there anyway to limit who can edit the Wiki? I too remember the hassle of loosing a lot of very important information because something happened to the wiki.
BAD is as good as he gets
User avatar
BAD
 
Posts: 832
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:44 am

Re: A suggestion.....

Postby Paradox » Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:04 pm

The goal was/is to have a wiki, at some point in the future.

I personally didn't think that we would see much demand for one until tools such as HuruStudio were released and the information on Alcugs became outdated, but it appears that there is a growing interest already.

The major problem that I see is that the Alcugs wiki is licensed as per the GNU Free Documentation License.
All content on Alcugs can be mirrored elsewhere, but must have a link pointing back to the original page and credits to the author.

Since most of the tutorials at Alcugs are in need of updating, there is the possibility that we could write our own updated tutorials without refferring back to Alcugs, but I'm not sure how legally stable that is.

In any case, if a wiki is set up (which I will start looking into after the forum merge over the weekend), do not copy any existing tutorials or documents onto it until agreements are made with other parties (Alcugs, Blender tutorials, etc.).
Paradox
 
Posts: 1290
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:48 pm
Location: Canada

Re: A suggestion.....

Postby Trylon » Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:22 am

A couple of articles are mine. As original author of them I do have the right to put them anywhere, and in any form I'd like, right?
One day I ran through the cleft for the fiftieth time, and found that uru held no peace for me anymore.
User avatar
Trylon
 
Posts: 1446
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:08 pm
Location: Gone from Uru

Re: A suggestion.....

Postby Chacal » Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:48 pm

Aloys wrote:Why do you hate wikis?


Well, you asked for it... :)

Short answer: Ease of navigation.

Very long asnwer:

Most wikis violate fundamental rules of useability for informational web sites: the user must never get lost, he must always know where he is and see where he wants to go. He is USING your web site, not killing time.

This pretty much dictates:
1- having a useful path on the screen at all times (where am I);
2- having a useful navigational tree on the screen at all times (where do I want to go);

Let's look at the Alcugs wiki which is pretty much typical (it uses mediaWiki which is the de facto standard). Start at the main page: http://alcugs.almlys.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page.
There is a navigational menu at the left which seems to comply with rule 2. But it is not useful, as it does not relate to the informational content of the wiki. Scrolling down the main page, you see some main topics:
  • Introduction
  • PRP Blender Plugins (PyPRP)
  • Unofficial Ages
  • Troubleshooting, Bugs, Suggestions
  • Historical Archives
These should be in the menu on the left, under a general heading named "Contents". Clicking on "Contents" should open this list. Clicking on the list shoulg either load the required page or open a lower-level list.

Now let's see what Ages exist. Down on the main page, there's a link for "List of Available Ages". Clicking on it loads a new page titled "UnofficialAgeList" (1). I'm on the page now, but the menu at the left has not changed, and there is no way, anywhere on the page, to go back to the previous level, apart from the "back" button, which is not a reliable navigational tool anymore (2). All I can do is go back to the main page. This is bad.

There is now a content menu on the page, which is good, but it is not in the navigational menu on the left, which is bad. If I want to use it I must scroll back to the top of the page, which is bad.

Now that I have ventured deeper in the site's structure, I don't remember where I am. Looking around on the page, there is nothing that tells me that. I'm lost. Why isn't there a path at the top similar to what the GoW forum shows me? It should say "Contents / Unofficial Ages / Unofficial Ages List. Those three elements should be clickable.

For an example of what I'm talking about see this link to a site I made some years ago:
http://collegegarnier.qc.ca/spip/rubriq ... rubrique=3

Even though it is in French language, you can try the navigational tools. You will find:
- A dynamic navigational menu on the right, with square bullets for terminal links and arrows for links with sub-sections (I'd rather have it on the left but the client wanted it on the right);
- Page titles with the exact same name as the links;
- A dynamic path always displayed at the top (always exactly at the same location).

Of course, I have invented nothing about useability best practices. All I know comes from the excellent work of Jakob Nielsen, well-known useability guru since well before the Web was born. See his site http://useit.com for lots of enlightening material.

------------------------------------------------------
(1) Oops, another big useability no-no. The link and the title should be in sync, otherwise it is confusing and very difficult to find the place again using a search function. Even worse, the meaning of the title differs from that of the link. Which one is it?

(2) As an author you don't have full control of the user's browser. You can't predict where the back button will lead, especially with the new multi-tabbed browsers, the plug-ins, frames, applets, etc.
Chacal


"The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is an attribute of the strong."
-- Mahatma Gandhi
User avatar
Chacal
 
Posts: 2508
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:45 pm
Location: Quebec, Canada

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests