Guild of Writers

I think we should start thinking about processes by which Cyan, the GoW and the GoMa can bring our new content in MORE.

To that effect I'm pasting here my suggestions from last November. I just replaced MOUL with MORE.
Cyan's message indicates that such processes are not canned yet, so our contribution is pertinent.
Cyan's message announced the re-appearance of private shards, so the models below may not be valid anymore and may have to be rewritten.

PLEASE NOTE:
- I realize Cyan's message says Cyan has to think about it and will keep us posted. No need to point that out again. This discussion IS pertinent.
- I also realize Cyan has said in the past that it wasn't looking into allowing user content for existing Ages. No need to point that out again. However this might change, so that discussion IS pertinent too, if only as an academic exercise.
- Some people might be tempted to say "Cyan will only speak to the guild leadership". Don't bother. This has been discussed here ad nauseam before. This would not be an acceptable situation for a lot of people including myself.

This discussion could involve people from GoMa too, feel free to contribute!

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I'm thinking of four models for including user content in MORE.

1- The discovery model - already discussed abundantly.

IC: An explorer finds a book to a previously unknown Age. This is submitted to the DRC for acceptation. If deemed worthy, Maintainers are sent to it for some time. If deemed safe, DRC adds the linking book in the Library in the City.

OOC: A team makes a new Age, publishes it to ULM. After peer review, a MORE version is submitted to [Cyan or whatever process Cyan puts in place]. The Age is then put on a test server for QA by the Maintainers, after which it is released for publication to shards or even to Cyan's MORE server.

2- The Teledahn/Sharper model

IC: The DRC finds a book to a previously unknown Age. They hire a team for restoring the Age and make it safe for explorers. The DRC receives progress reports and does occasional visits. When the restoration work is completed, Maintainers are sent to it for some time. If deemed safe, DRC adds the linking book in the Library in the City. Restoration journals similar to Sharper's journal are kept and publicly available so anticipation is great among explorers.

OOC: Cyan has specific needs for an Age and hires a team of volunteer builders (possibly through the GoW). If a team picks up the job, Cyan gives them a complete list of requirements (story, puzzle, geography) and possibly technical parameters and some material (geometry, general layout, linking point, possibly some texture files, objects, python code). Versions are delivered to Cyan according to the current scheme (model, texture, wiring, etc). There is no peer review. A final version is delivered, which Cyan puts on a test server for QA by the Maintainers. After QA, it schedules the Age for a future official update.

3- The contest model

IC: to further advance the restoration of the City or available Ages, the DRC opens a contest similar to the stained glass restoration contests. The theme would be in the lines of "Restore the room behind the door on the second landing of the great stairs". The DRC would specifiy the room measurements, function and other constraints. At some undisclosed point in the future, the door would be unlocked and we could explore the winning entry.

OOC: Same as IC except the contest organizer (Cyan, the GoW or any other entity) would publish a prp with a correctly sized and shaped room for fitting behind the door (maximum size, the submitted room could be smaller). The winning entry would be put on a test server for QA by the Maintainers. It would then be secretly added in a monthly update. This would encourage continual exploration. New explorers would stand a good chance of discovering it, whereas we don't try to open doors anymore.

This is pretty much similar to the GoW RAD contests we've been having, and especially to the AhraPahts contest. So we are testing this model right now and so far it is working. The difference is that the winning entry would be added to existing Cyan Ages. If the contest was for an entirely new Age, then it would follow model #4 instead.

4- The original Age model

IC: Since the restoration began, a few explorers have started studying the Art of Writing. They are rediscovering the Art from scratch much as Gehn, Atrus and Catherine have done before. As they gain experience and expertise, their work is submitted to the DRC for acceptation. If deemed worthy, Maintainers are sent to it for some time. If deemed safe, DRC adds the linking book in the Library in the City. Most of the new Writers have joined the new Guild of Writers, an organization providing help and feedback, as well as ways for all explorers to view the work in progress and provide comments and suggestions, and even lend a hand. In that way, the new Guild is much different from the old one, having shed the secrecy and elitism which used to caracterize it.

OOC: This is the simplest model, in which entirely new concepts are being developed. These may or may not fit with Cyan's storylines. Accordingly, these Ages would be available to players who don't mind the risk of breaking the continuity or suspension of disbelief. There would have to be a way of ensuring new players couldn't end up on these Ages by accident, without being warned. For example, the linking books could be stored in a reserved level of the Library, or an entirely different building with posted warnings, or most probably would be available only on certain shards. I entirely subscribe to Belford's ideas about original Ages being freely available for everyone in an entirely transparent process (see his post here. This is pretty much the same model as #1, except there would be no secrecy at all because the Age would not be intended to gather any official status. This sentence in the IC section " If deemed worthy, Maintainers are sent to it for some time. If deemed safe, DRC adds the linking book in the Library in the City." actually means only "if the Age isn't bugged".

RAD contests organized by the GoW fall into this model.

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Note 1: These four models are not mutually exclusive.
Note 2: These are just models, not detailed processes.

Suggestion: Your bold headings in Yellow are VERY hard to read for those of us using the Prosilver Forum Skin. You might want to change that to a different color (green? Blue?) so we can see it:

- Some people might be tempted to say "Cyan will only speak to the guild leadership". Don't bother. This has been discussed here ad nauseam before. This would not be an acceptable situation for a lot of people including myself".

Sorry you feel that way. Especially if it is what Cyan wants (you can't deal with a mob of people. Being in business, you of all people should know this), or may have already happened.

Why yes, it has happened. Cyan went to the Guild of Messengers and released the news to them first to release to the rest of the community.

Let me ask you a question Chacal: Will Cyan only talking to Guild Leaders in the future, or may have already, cause you to storm off?
I'd hate to see that as I have always thought of you as a major contributor to this community. It would be a loss I would think.

But please remember: This is Cyan's show now. We work with them the way they want us to. If that means that they want to talk to Guild Leaders first about something, I can tell you right now that the GoMa will honor that request. We're not going to snub Cyan and tell them "No."
Again, it's their show and while all of us in the community have some very good and great ideas, it's ultimately up to them how they want to start this off and run it. That may change in the future, but for now that may not be how Cyan wants to do things.

What I mean is: As you said, it's Cyan's show. It's not something we can control, I'm not expecting guildmasters to shut the door on Cyan, but it's not an acceptable solution we should put forward. It would be against what GoW stands for. I would however expect the GoMa and GoW leadership to try to convince Cyan that secrecy is unneeded and even harmful.

Would I storm out? I don't know.

Does Ae'gura use (in any form) the door function that Robert has utilized for Ahra Pahts?

This would, in theory, cut down on the size of Ae'gura and allow smaller ares (ex. Kadish's Art Room, the Library, the Museum, the Guild Halls) to be loaded seperate from Ae'gura's core sections. Also, this would allow Cyan to debug these smaller areas so that your Model 3 could be possible.

Chacal, this brings forward a VERY interesting possibility though. Something MUCH larger than restoring.

Has anyone here (please, god save me from laughter) played Pokemon Mystery Dungeon 2? You can do normal missions, or you have the one MAJOR exploration that the Guild undergoes halfway through the story. This expedition is a HUGE undertaking, and takes many stages and is MUCH longer to complete than a normal mission.

Now, let me adapt that to the GoW, or the Guilds themselves.

Perhaps have Ages that are processed by the DRC, yet are unsafe to finish. However, OOC, many people can continuously submit different ideas of how the Age should proceed. For example, say IC that the DRC has used sounding equipment and knows the parameters of the rooms beyond. They then ask people to speculate on distortions/uncertainties and show different concepts. This would, IC, give the DRC a better sense of what could lie within and what tech they would need.

This could be applied not only to Ae'gura, but to new Ages written by explorers. A Continuous Restoration Age (CRA) which is being processed in multiple stages to avoid damage and harm to people, yet still allow people to see new Ages.

Cyan is not know for their open communication. If it came down to a point where Cyan says that they are willing to talk only in secrecy, then it will be in secrecy. We really don't have the power to tell Cyan that we're only willing to speak to them in public.

What I mean is: As you said, it's Cyan's show. It's not something we can control, I'm not expecting guildmasters to shut the door on Cyan, but it's not an acceptable solution we should put forward. It would be against what GoW stands for. I would however expect the GoMa and GoW leadership to try to convince Cyan that secrecy is unneeded and even harmful.

yes, I didn't mean us (GM's) asking for private discussions. I meant if Cyan asks that discussions of certain subject remain private until they deem it time to go public.

I, as other GM's can ask that something remain open to the public. But again, I and others can only ask. If they say "No." then that's their answer. I'm not about to argue with Cyan. Neither are any of the other GM's that I know.

I have done tests with Prosilver (my god it's ugly) and I think these new blue titles are readable on both styles.

I have edited the text for taking into account the new situation under MORE. I have also taken the RAD contests into account.

I believe it is important that we come up with a workable process while Cyan is still open to suggestions.

Thanks, Chacal, that blue is perfect.

Chacal what you outline is pretty good, if I had to take a pick I would say the Contest model has the best chance of happening early, and will have the most effect for the most people. This thread really is full of good ideas and a lot of the "Add a Room" Contest ideas would change the shape of Uru fairly dramatically, just think "Hood Gameroom".

A basic idea for how to do it is just make "locked room" Ages to link to in Uru:CC I would think. Other then that there are some Globally similar textures that Cyan would almost have to approve the use of by Fans like Walls, Floors, and Ceilings in some cases. The direction of the contests and their success or failure would be a good stepping stone for the Teledahn model also.

Sample Contest Rules
1. The proposed room must fit within the current model.
-This doesn't mean artistic but instead the actual physical dimensions in the model available as "Empty" space to build in.
2. Select items released for the contest, stay in the contest.
- Ok to many Las Vegas commercials but the idea that Cyan may temporarily let people build with things with their body of work is important.
3. Code standards must be strictly followed, and all code tested before it goes live.
- As API's are promised there will be no excuse to poorly code something, one bad line of code would be a land mine waiting not once but repeatedly to strike.


More rules would fit depending on the circumstances but these three make a basic idea to talk about.

With the announcement about MOOSE and the discussion about content for a Guilds Shard, it is time for a 3rd edition of my 4 models. Since circumstances change so much, I'll try to use variables. So:
[[DRC]] will be whatever IC body, if any, appears to be in charge of opening new Ages to explorers. This may or may not exist in a Guilds Shard.
[committee] replaces Cyan. It is whatever OOC body, if any, makes the decision of accepting user-created Ages for the Shard.
[ULM] is whatever mechanism exists for uploading new Ages (and maybe distributing them for playing off-line on POTS).
[MOUL] is the MOUL version of Plasma, Ages and servers, as opposed to the POTS version.

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I'm thinking of four models for including user content on the Guilds Shard .

1- The discovery model - already discussed abundantly.

IC: An explorer finds a book to a previously unknown Age. This is submitted to the [DRC] for acceptation. If deemed worthy, Maintainers are sent to it for some time. If deemed safe, [DRC] adds the linking book in the Library in the City.

OOC: A team makes a new Age, publishes it to [ULM]. After peer review, a [MOUL] version is submitted to [committee]. The Age is then put on a test server for QA by the Maintainers, after which it is released for publication to the Guilds Shard.

2- The Teledahn/Sharper model

IC: The [DRC] finds a book to a previously unknown Age. They hire a team for restoring the Age and making it safe for explorers. The [DRC] receives progress reports and does occasional visits. When the restoration work is completed, Maintainers are sent to it for some time. If deemed safe, [DRC] adds the linking book in the Library in the City. Restoration journals similar to Sharper's journal are kept and publicly available so anticipation is great among explorers.

OOC: [committee] has specific needs for an Age and hires a team of volunteer builders (possibly through the GoW). If a team picks up the job, [committee] gives them a complete list of requirements (story, puzzle, geography) and possibly technical parameters and some material (geometry, general layout, linking point, possibly some texture files, objects, python code). Versions are delivered to [committee] according to the current scheme (model, texture, wiring, etc). There is no peer review. A final version is delivered, which [committee] puts on a test server for QA by the Maintainers. After QA, it schedules the Age for a future official update, possibly fitting with a story development.

3- The contest model

IC: to further advance the restoration of the City or available Ages, the [DRC] opens a contest similar to the stained glass restoration contests. The theme would be in the lines of "Restore the room behind the door on the second landing of the great stairs". The [DRC] would specifiy the room measurements, function and other constraints. At some undisclosed point in the future, the door would be unlocked and we could explore the winning entry.

OOC: Same as IC except the contest organizer ([committee], the GoW or any other entity) would publish a prp with a correctly sized and shaped room for fitting behind the door (maximum size, the submitted room could be smaller). The winning entry would be put on a test server for QA by the Maintainers. It would then be secretly added in a monthly update. This would encourage continual exploration. New explorers would stand a good chance of discovering it, whereas we don't try to open doors anymore.

This is pretty much similar to the GoW RAD contests we've been having, and especially to the AhraPahts contest. So we are testing this model right now and so far it is working. The difference is that the winning entry would be added to existing Ages on the Shard, even Cyan Ages such as the City. If the contest was for an entirely new Age, then it would follow model #4 instead.

4- The original Age model

IC: Since the restoration began, a few explorers have started studying the Art of Writing. They are rediscovering the Art from scratch much as Gehn, Atrus and Catherine have done before. As they gain experience and expertise, their work is submitted to the [DRC] for acceptation. If deemed worthy, Maintainers are sent to it for some time. If deemed safe, [DRC] adds the linking book in the Library in the City. Most of the new Writers have joined the new Guild of Writers, an organization providing help and feedback, as well as ways for all explorers to view the work in progress and provide comments and suggestions, and even lend a hand. In that way, the new Guild is much different from the old one, having shed the secrecy and elitism which used to caracterize it.

OOC: This is the simplest model, in which entirely new concepts are being developed. These may or may not fit with [committee]'s storylines. Accordingly, these Ages would be available to players who don't mind the risk of breaking the continuity or suspension of disbelief. There would have to be a way of ensuring new players couldn't end up on these Ages by accident, without being warned. For example, the linking books could be stored in a reserved level of the Library, or an entirely different building with posted warnings, or most probably would be available only on certain shards. I entirely subscribe to Belford's ideas about original Ages being freely available for everyone in an entirely transparent process (see his post here. This is pretty much the same model as #1, except there would be no secrecy at all because the Age would not be intended to gather any official status. This sentence in the IC section " If deemed worthy, Maintainers are sent to it for some time. If deemed safe, [DRC] adds the linking book in the Library in the City." actually means only "if the Age isn't bugged".

RAD contests organized by the GoW fall into this model.

--------------------------------------------------
Note 1: These four models are not mutually exclusive.
Note 2: These are just models, not detailed processes.