Uru redefined! Proposal list - add your own thoughts.

[Yali]

Here it is, an assemblage of proposals for a redefined, improved Uru. This thread is meant to be a basic hub of thoughts and discussions - basically a collective brain storm - for a new and better Uru.

Feel free to post your own lists of ideas. This is the place for it.

For now, here is my 'official' list:

Interface:

1. Cursor should be fixed within the center of the screen. This is to allow instant/natural mobility. By right clicking, one can detach the cursor and scan without moving, much like in Myst V or in other series like the Elder Scrolls.

2. The circle cursor I vote to be reused. While I contemplated bringing back the grabby hand, I believe the circle is more effective in the real time environment (like when finding hotspots) and simply more subtle/less intrusive graphically.

3. I've posted some mockup designs of the basic look of a new player screen in the arts section. http://guildofwriters.com/phpbb/viewtop ... f=6&t=2591


KI

1. I vote that the old KI design be reinstated.


Various

1. Link sound effect should be the Riven one. It's just plain cooler. Even Robyn stated that that one was an improved evolution of the original.

2. Cloths upon press should go even further with the idea of the current effect and produce the original Myst blue static with static noise. This would tie in the charm of the original with the new.


Design elements

1. Bring back the old original Myst K'veer pillar design instead of the sunbeam one from Myst V. There should also be 5 red pillars in the each enclave.
2. Bring back the original Great Tree design. The old one resembled much more a mouth of a great beast - sort of like the Deku tree (from Zelda).


Ages and Expansions

1. I have an idea for an expanded Kadish, where the remnants of Kadish's mansion could be explored.
2. Expanded Teledahn (of course)
3. Descent. I have a couple ideas for this too.

Overall, for big Ages I suggest we open up threads for each, or even forum sections, where a general project can be undertaken.


Title

Ok, this is a biggie.

The logo I strongly favor over the latest two. It has a lot more character and is a lot more direct in its concept.

For the name itself, here's what I suggest:

UrU: The Sequel to Riven

I strongly advocate the subtitle, here's why:

1. The name "Myst" has always hindered the individuality of the name and product.
2. Using the Myst name in the title seems more of a leeching to the old fame of the original, like Uru can't survive alone.
3. "The Sequel to Riven" is a back to basics title. Uru really is the next logical step and story after Riven. Remember, just because Uru does not feature the Stranger does not make such a title invalid.

While Exile continued the Myst story, it was more of a diversion back onto more familiar ground. Myst, like the Hobbit, was an introduction to the Mythos. It was simple and begged for more. Riven opened up the Mythos substantially, but Uru is where the story really happens.
4. Uru is also the Cyan game after Riven. All these reasons make Uru the logical heir to the Myst/Riven saga, stranger or no stranger.
5. Commercially, I believe this to be more viable. We want people to remember the glory of the first games and attach Uru onto that path, not show that Myst is still (barely) alive.


Art and overall theme

What I want to recapture is the spirit, charm, and subtlety of the first two games.

During Mudpie, much of this spirit was thriving - a high point following the newly established ideals brought forth by people such as Rich Vander Wende during the production of Riven.

But following the Ubisoft takeover, high ideals were compromised and truncated. The overall "look" of Uru became much more commercial and flashy, and much less subtle and artistically loose. After the cancelation, Cyan suffered a serious financial blow and thus high artistic leisures fell out of favor when strapped for cash.

1. Firstly, I'm in favour of the atmosphere being a lot more dark and dry.
1.1. This means an overhauled, out of game interface.
1.2. A return to more realistic/Jules Vernian style content.
1.3. A warmer look overall.
1.4. Much more focus on D'ni culture and its presentation in the books.
1.5. Unlike in recent trends, I want the world first, then the puzzles. Give me a place that could be on Earth - meaning a place with stuff in it.
Then, integrate some gameplay mechanics into an already established story and location.
1.6. More stuff to examine, read, flip through - more objects of D'ni origin.
1.7. For the time being, a serious break from the Yeesha/Bahro side of things.
1.8. A reinvented commercial look - darker, more to the point, more artistic liberties.
1.9. Rooms, rooms, and more rooms. Visual storytelling at its finest. I want to simply immerse myself in junk, debris, drawers, papers, beds,
lamps - anything that belongs to a believable civilization where people lived.

[Chacal]

KI

2. Rework the multi-user interface so that it is actually useable, more specifically the user-chooser at left. Add a scroll bar, keep the current user selected even when the list changes, allow the user to switch at any time between "Age players", "Buddies" and "Neighbors" without having to scroll.

[Grogyan]

There isn't much we can do with cloths because that falls outside te realms of story continuity from RAWa's rules

The KI, ah yes the KI

This will be by far the biggest thing we will see that will change significatly.

I like the PIC design of the old KI Yali


It presents the KI coordinates in a tidy fashion while still looking good
The Marker button is in a good position

Oh what the hell, I vote strongly for this KI design UI

Code wise there is functionality that i'd like to see, i'm not going to re-iterate, i've done it too many times this past week

[Lontahv]

The sad thing is that that kind of KI isn't blue-sky. It existed: http://lontahv.googlepages.com/lon.bigKI1.jpg (taken from lonelyto25's site).

[Grogyan]

Probably did in the Uru beta, like many things, it works, works pretty well then its dumped for no apparent reason, that is one reason why Spore failed.

Strange thing is I like this old KI, instead of the one we have now, seems antiquated.

Click the symbol that resembles a marker to create a marker game, I dunno it just seems more intuitive

The current one does have one redeeming quality, you can make a cake out of it
http://www.tabblo.com/studio/stories/sh ... 0cmgnkwz2f

[Tsar Hoikas]

KI

2. Rework the multi-user interface so that it is actually useable, more specifically the user-chooser at left. Add a scroll bar, keep the current user selected even when the list changes, allow the user to switch at any time between "Age players", "Buddies" and "Neighbors" without having to scroll.

I would actually be in favor of dumping the Age Players category and relying on toggable avatar name displays above avatars... And maybe an obfuscated "Who's Here" list. IMO the current KI gives me TMI.

[Chacal]

http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/tmi
(I'm gonna go for "too much information". Somehow I don't think Top Management Issues are your problem yet)

Yes, provided it is still possible to broadcast to all Age players.

[Aloys]

If there's one single thing I could change in Uru it would be the camera.
More specifically the regular 3rd person camera. I'm talking about the default avatar camera, not the region defined custom camera setups. The current avatar cam setup is both counter-intuitive and limiting, when you move it around your camera can only cover a small field of view. The current setup could be named as ''pan & scan' variety. 99% of the other games out there with a 3rd person camera use the 'orbit around head' setup, which essentially reproduces the movement of your real head as it turns around its axis. (except that it can turn 360°). There's a reason most game uses this setup: it's more intuitive, easier to use and allow you to get a better view of your environment.
Each time you step in a new area in Uru you have to switch to 1st to be able to fully see it.. IMO that's annoying, that's a waste of time, and (worst crime of all in Myst game design), it breaks the immersion.
'Orbit around head' is the better option here IMO.

The only problem with it (IMO) is that if we want to maintain some realism it shouldn't be able to turn 360° unless the avatar follows the movement and turns too (say past a certain angle of movement). But that's only a minor quirk.

Custom cameras are a whole different thing, and when handled properly they add a lot to the game, and in these particular instances the 'pan & scan' system works fine. Where it doesn't work so well is when the camera switch back to the default 'follow avatar' mode. It's possible that they kept the same system in both case out of consistency, but IMO it only works well in one case.
As often with these things it all comes down to a matter of personal perference. But if I knew a bit about C++ programming and math that'd be the first thing I'd change.

(They are definitely bigger issues in Uru, but to me being able to immerse myself in the environment is of prime importance, and this includes the camera interface. I'm pretty sure that's the first thing I complained about in the old beta days..)

[Tweek]

Interface:

1. Cursor should be fixed within the center of the screen. This is to allow instant/natural mobility. By right clicking, one can detach the cursor and scan without moving, much like in Myst V or in other series like the Elder Scrolls.

Not to keen on this myself, I find that mechanism extremely annoying when trying to pan and gather screenshots.

2. The circle cursor I vote to be reused. While I contemplated bringing back the grabby hand, I believe the circle is more effective in the real time environment (like when finding hotspots) and simply more subtle/less intrusive graphically.

Agreed

KI

1. I vote that the old KI design be reinstated.

I disagree the old KI UI was apparently worse to use than the current one, whilst I like the style of the actual KI device I think the UI needs to be built ground up (and still sticking true to the concept of the D'ni tech)

Various

1. Link sound effect should be the Riven one. It's just plain cooler. Even Robyn stated that that one was an improved evolution of the original.

I kind of agree with this, I like the Riven sfx but I am used to the current.

2. Cloths upon press should go even further with the idea of the current effect and produce the original Myst blue static with static noise. This would tie in the charm of the original with the new.

I have no idea what you are referring to here in terms of Myst blue static.

Design elements

1. Bring back the old original Myst K'veer pillar design instead of the sunbeam one from Myst V. There should also be 5 red pillars in the each enclave.

I personally think K'veer is fine as it is, I much prefer the aesthetics of the newer version to the K'veer of Myst, it has more depth and ambiance about it, where as the old K'veer was very flat feeling.

2. Bring back the original Great Tree design. The old one resembled much more a mouth of a great beast - sort of like the Deku tree (from Zelda).

No clue what you mean here, are you referring to the Great Tree in the Watchers Sanctuary? If so the tree is just the same as it used to be. All they changed was the sphere room that encompasses it.

Ages and Expansions

1. I have an idea for an expanded Kadish, where the remnants of Kadish's mansion could be explored.
2. Expanded Teledahn (of course)
3. Descent. I have a couple ideas for this too.

Overall, for big Ages I suggest we open up threads for each, or even forum sections, where a general project can be undertaken.

I'm somewhat hypocritical here, as I can deal with people expanding D'ni (providing it is done well) but feel Kadish and Teledahn need to be left alone, especially seeming I feel Kadish doesn't really have room for expansion.

Title

Ok, this is a biggie.

The logo I strongly favor over the latest two. It has a lot more character and is a lot more direct in its concept.

For the name itself, here's what I suggest:

UrU: The Sequel to Riven

I strongly advocate the subtitle, here's why:

1. The name "Myst" has always hindered the individuality of the name and product.
2. Using the Myst name in the title seems more of a leeching to the old fame of the original, like Uru can't survive alone.
3. "The Sequel to Riven" is a back to basics title. Uru really is the next logical step and story after Riven. Remember, just because Uru does not feature the Stranger does not make such a title invalid.

While Exile continued the Myst story, it was more of a diversion back onto more familiar ground. Myst, like the Hobbit, was an introduction to the Mythos. It was simple and begged for more. Riven opened up the Mythos substantially, but Uru is where the story really happens.
4. Uru is also the Cyan game after Riven. All these reasons make Uru the logical heir to the Myst/Riven saga, stranger or no stranger.
5. Commercially, I believe this to be more viable. We want people to remember the glory of the first games and attach Uru onto that path, not show that Myst is still (barely) alive.

As for the logo, that logo worked well when it was enbossed in stone/mud back during the advertising of Uru, as a game logo is is ugly. The current logo is more refined, whilst the gold does little for me (I prefer silver looking logo myself) and is suitable IMO, especially if a simple flat white colour.

Using the Myst name in the title seems to be leeching the old fame of the original, having Riven in the title does exactly the same.
Uru is not a sequel to Riven, Uru is not a Myst game it is set in the same universe but it is not a Myst game. Exile was a sequel, game after Riven by Cyan != sequel.

Uru needs to stand on its own, not be latched on to something else.

You don't have World of Warcraft The Sequel to Warcraft III The Frozen Throne. It is just World of Warcraft.

Art and overall theme

What I want to recapture is the spirit, charm, and subtlety of the first two games.

During Mudpie, much of this spirit was thriving - a high point following the newly established ideals brought forth by people such as Rich Vander Wende during the production of Riven.

But following the Ubisoft takeover, high ideals were compromised and truncated. The overall "look" of Uru became much more commercial and flashy, and much less subtle and artistically loose. After the cancelation, Cyan suffered a serious financial blow and thus high artistic leisures fell out of favor when strapped for cash.

Easy to blame Ubisoft, but fact is they were only part of it, Cyan made mistakes and made poor choices too.

1. Firstly, I'm in favour of the atmosphere being a lot more dark and dry.
1.1. This means an overhauled, out of game interface.
1.2. A return to more realistic/Jules Vernian style content.
1.3. A warmer look overall.
1.4. Much more focus on D'ni culture and its presentation in the books.
1.5. Unlike in recent trends, I want the world first, then the puzzles. Give me a place that could be on Earth - meaning a place with stuff in it.
Then, integrate some gameplay mechanics into an already established story and location.
1.6. More stuff to examine, read, flip through - more objects of D'ni origin.
1.7. For the time being, a serious break from the Yeesha/Bahro side of things.
1.8. A reinvented commercial look - darker, more to the point, more artistic liberties.
1.9. Rooms, rooms, and more rooms. Visual storytelling at its finest. I want to simply immerse myself in junk, debris, drawers, papers, beds,
lamps - anything that belongs to a believable civilization where people lived.

1.1 - Personally I feel the atmosphere is fine, it could be improved but each location is going to have its own atmosphere, trying to pigeon hole it into dark and dry stifles being able to make varied locations.
1.2 - This again is up to the person making the content.
1.3 - Same as 1.2
1.4 - Whilst not the same as it's portrayal in the books (I have liked some of the changes made to the Uru D'ni) I do think focus should be on them and not the Ages, this was a critical failing of MOUL in my opinion.
1.5 - Ages built around story instead story built around Ages, which is the thing thrown around by Cyan back in the day as a great thing, something they sadly forgot.
1.6 - Agreed
1.7 - To much emphasis has been placed on Yeesha and the Bahro, this hasn't been helped by the mess of retcons because of the game being canceled and EoA.
1.8 - More of that artistic Cyan flare would be nice, but it is us who are building now not Cyan, perhaps we need to put our mark on it instead of trying to copy Cyans?
1.9 - Also agreed.

[Yali]

Oh wow, thanks Tweek.

1. About the cursor, this comes from the unnatural time it takes to turn one's self around. In real life, turning a head is instant, having to pan to the left or right is unnatural and more importantly a serious stiffener of gameplay.

3. Yeah, rebuild the KI but use the old design.

2. Ok, remember the blue static animation they used in Myst, like in image viewers and in Achenar's book. It was also referenced in the opening sequence to Riven in the book panel. Wouldn't it be great if the animation on the cloths was just like this? I think this could tie in the haunting feel of the original Myst with the more harsh realism of Uru. The current effect is similar, I just want to take it up a notch.

1. I think Kadish could benefit from some areas relating to Kadish's character. How about wildlife? Kadish Tolesa as a natural environment unto its own.

Teledahn is huge! Just look at the map. It's the only Age I couldn't stand not seeing expanded. Teledahn is the most original of the bunch, as well as the most myst-like structure wise. Artistically, I'd say it's the most refined and natural feeling. In terms of gameplay, again it feels very much rooted in the greater world. I think it has the most potential.

1. Well, I really loved the old lattice design on the pillars. I'll agree the new K'veer has more color.

2. About the title, you make a good point. How about just Uru?

3. The tree, in the original design had two lights like eyes. The new one just has one light. I also really liked the red and blue sky tones.