Sigh Not Again

[GPNMilano]

Didn't we all go through this once guys. Really is it necessary to yet again ugly our forums by putting up a redacted banner. Last time it was there for months on end. The first time was understandable. Those in charge were sending a message because of Cyan's new forum policies regarding age creation stuff over there. However, it's now not about that. That banner is now there because of a hissy fit that the guild leadership is throwing because of veraloon's latest antics and abuse of moderation powers. I understand that, and while I disagree with veraloon's tactics, motives, and all around anything that comes from him. Disgracing our forums with that banner is not the right way to handle this. Those that were "moderated" (I use that term in it's loosest sense as they weren't, they were the targets of an ongoing witch hunt by veraloon and his goons over at MOULa) should not be forcing their personal beef on the entire guild by putting up a banner saying the guild was redacted. The guild was not redacted in this instance. Those in charge, as they so love to point out, are NOT the Guild of Writers. Everyone who contributes to age creation, in anyway here in these forums, they are members of the Guild of Writers. The banner is sending the wrong message in this instance. It should be removed. If someone is redirected here by a member of the Guild, the first thing that new person is going to see is that banner. That's the wrong message to be sending to anyone interested in age creation. So I'm asking in the politest way possible. Have a little sense and take it down guys. Please.

[andylegate]

:sigh:

Oh well. Having the guild banner actually say what it was suppose to say, if only for a little while, was nice. But a voice in me shrugs and says: "What else did you expect?"

While I understand the assault to certain people by Veralun was unacceptable (and was something I pointed out to Mark this morning, who said he was on his way to try and fix it, and he also agreed Veralun's actions were uncalled for.), I have to agree with GPN: That was an issue between certain people and the MOUL forum. Not an issue of the GoW and the MOUL forum. The topic had nothing to do with the GoW and Age Creation at all, nor did the posts by any members that were "banned" for a few brief hours have anything to do with the GoW, Age Creation, Modding Uru or MOUL in any way, shape or form.

Just about EVERYONE that posts here, KNOWS that Veralun does whatever he wants to do over there, and that his moderation techniques should not surprise anyone here. Wanting to get rid of him as a Mod there I understand. Wanting Cyan to change their forum policies, I can understand. Defacing the forum banner here does NOTHING, except send the wrong message to people in the community. Do you really think that Cyan cares about the forum banner here? Or that you have it in your signatures here or over there? Do you really think it will accomplish anything?

Did it last time?

Nope. Didn't do a darn thing to change anything over at MOUL or Cyan.

What it did do is help alienate this guild with members in the community, had others leave this guild and made people think that the GoW was not a good place to be.

I can understand being frustrated, angry, and wanting to lash out. However, while this may have made the "powers that be" here feel better, did y'all stop to think how it might make others here feel? GPN spoke up, and she doesn't feel good about it at all. Bet she's not the only one.

I know that lately I've just lurked, but I do come here to see what's up, how things with CWE are moving, smile at the new people anxious to get started with PyPRP 2.0 and the new Blender, and am happy to see some post their work here and that people are still making Ages.
But seeing the banner changed again, what I felt today was the same discord of someone slamming their hands on a piano keyboard, and my first thought was: Oh god. Here we go again.

I hope on reflection those that control these things will remember this is a guild for creation of Ages, artwork, music and even stories. Not a political soap box to protest Cyan and MOUL moderators.

Maybe y'all should start up a separate guild and forum, call it the GoP, Guild Of Protesters....... just a suggestion. Hope by tomorrow morning people will have calmed down, and maybe those that have been working hard to improve the GoW's relationship with the community will hopefully think about changing the banner back to what this place is suppose to be.

[Chacal]

Again?
Our forum's banner gets defaced AGAIN, by our forum's administrators AGAIN, without consulting us AGAIN?
After all that was said last time?

Agreed, agreed, with the posts above.
I don't care what some trigger-happy mod does on the MOUL forum.
It happens over there, not here.

Whoever is doing this is giving lots of power to that Veralun guy: he can now deface our forum just by censoring some posts on his forum.

Could the Guild leadership please ask the forum admins to stop doing that?
Oh wait, they're the same people. Never mind.

[kaelisebonrai]

The forums, and their design are not up for consultation, as far as I understand the structure document. They are the /sole/ concern of the council. Not the representatives.

On that note, no, it wasn't just the guild. It is the entire community that is being redacted.

It is time to make our stand.

EDIT: also, on that note, banning the guild leadership does, infact, impact the guild as a whole.

It prevents them from doing their duties to the guild on those forums. It *IS* a big deal.

[Chacal]

Your stand, not mine, nor the GoW's.
And go make it on the MOUL forums where it belongs.

Also, yet another one of your famous "shut up, peon" posts.
You seem to enjoy them.

Suggestion for the next one: "Let them eat cake".

[Paradox]

In this case, I more or less agree with the people above. I think this particular issue would best be dealt with by the people that it directly impacted. The moderation actions were not directed at the Guild as a whole, but at certain individuals in a circumstance that was not GoW related.

[Deledrius]

In this case, I more or less agree with the people above. I think this particular issue would best be dealt with by the people that it directly impacted. The moderation actions were not directed at the Guild as a whole, but at certain individuals in a circumstance that was not GoW related.

This is how I see it as well. Not to diminish or dismiss what happened earlier today and yesterday, but in this instance it appears to have been directed at individuals, not the Guild itself, unlike the initial Redacted campaign. I certainly understand the want and need to be heard in this, but it seems misplaced as a symbol this time.

[Rabbit]

Agree with above

[GPNMilano]

The forums, and their design are not up for consultation, as far as I understand the structure document. They are the /sole/ concern of the council. Not the representatives.

On that note, no, it wasn't just the guild. It is the entire community that is being redacted.

It is time to make our stand.

This latest bout had absolutely nothing to do with the Guild. Nor Guild related business. It had to do with the moderation issues over at the MOULa forums. The posts that were moderated had nothing to do with the Guild of Writers. While I agree something should be done about the moderation issues over there. That's not a job for the Guild of Writers. The Guild of Writer's job is to allow a place where fans of Uru can come and gather to create ages, both individually, and as groups, so that Uru can be supplied with a steady stream of new content and new stories that the fans wish to tell and share with the community.

EDIT: also, on that note, banning the guild leadership does, infact, impact the guild as a whole.

It prevents them from doing their duties to the guild on those forums. It *IS* a big deal.

A single member of the Guild Leadership was "banned". That ban was within hours lifted over at MOULa by Chogon. Who said that things were happening behind the scenes in this matter. A stand is not needed. Nor is this kind of stand warranted. Just because the Guild Leadership has the power to change how the site looks, does not give them the right to abuse that power to suit their individual needs and causes. Any more than Veraluney's power to "ban" people over at MOULa gives him the right to do so.

[diafero]

I doubt Hoikas made these posts in his function as guild councillor. He made them being Hoikas, and Veralun behaved, well, as usual. I stopped caring about those forums years ago, and he is a large part of the reason. Now I have to care about it again because those annoyances are brought here.
I could understand it last time, where it was Cyan's official stance that we criticized, and it clearly targeted the guilds, all of them, and affected all guild members (though many of them decided not to care). This time it's really just another proof of how unbearable Veralun is, an another attack of him against Hoikas (and Luna, for that matter). It's not attacking the guild as a whole, and IMHO not important enough to deface our forums.