Uru Again...

[uaOmicron]

Shorah, everyone!

A small group of artists and developers have started a re-imagining of Uru: "Uru Again". The concept is twofold:

The first is to make as many small graphical and gameplay improvements as possible. Replacing textures and models is the most obvious thing here, but also doing things like making more reflections dynamic and other special-effects tweaks. It's hard to give examples as those adjustments are very case-by-case. Linking is getting an overhaul.

The second, and what's really the more interesting part (to me at least), is to bring a new story to Uru. The idea is to rewind the story to just after Prologue, and to create a new Uru that answers the question "What would have happened if the explorer community had been left on their own for the past seven years." We want to make changes in the Ages and the Journeys that tell the story of how a community of explorers has grown and come into its own, and how those people have helped to bring the D'ni city back to life.

I know this is vague. That's partially because we don't have everything figured out yet, but also because we don't want to spoil anything before our eventual unveiling. The meat of the project is completely top-secret, and will remain that way for a while - hence the codename.

What we don't have is enough people. This is a fairly massive undertaking, and we're going to need help. If you like the idea of making Uru even prettier, you feel the newer Journeys aren't quite as enthralling as Prime, or even if you've just always wanted to have a greek letter for a codename, I encourage you to PM me or reply here. PMing is probably preferable, as it will let you keep the same anonymity as the rest of the UA team.

Some stipulations:

• Ultimately, we want our core team to maintain the creative direction. While suggestions from newer team members are going to be welcome, if you come in to this expecting to help set direction you might end up being sorely disappointed.
• We have very high quality standards for ourselves, and we expect any new team members to be able to meet them. Work examples are a must, though they don't necessarily have to be Uru-related.

[Jojon]

Ok, to put this as rudely as possible:


"Ah; fan fiction." (said with a generous measure of contempt)

I never got why some people feel compelled to smudge paint all over other peoples' canvases, rather than striking off to do something that is more their own.


I really, really hate to be the one to make anybody feel unwelcome, but I'm in a less than perfect mood anyway and might as well target it in your general direction, to balance out the considerably more friendly feedback you are bound to receive from everybody else. (Never mind any "sleep-on-it" or "would-you-say-this-IRL?" rule; Negativism does have a role to play and I choose to dump some of it here, pre-emptively.)


If you are going to not only ask for help, but set up demands on those you are trying to recruit, you should really have more to show for yourself than: "Top secret, hush hush - apply below, but no riff-raff".

As far as anybody knows, you could just be some one anonymous guy, with an inflated ego, who likes the idea of bossing others around and seek to leech their talent and creativity, for lack of any of your own. Believe me; there are plenty of those around.

You could just as well be an appointed spokesperson for a group of humble and talented people, with a beautiful vision that would put a sentimental tear in the eye of the philosopher himself, but how would anybody know? You do address the vagueness, but that is not good enough.

(I don't speak on my own behalf here, of course, since I very much fall into any "undesired untalented riff-raff" category -- I'm just offloading all the arrogance I can muster.)


I have a bit of a bad taste in my mouth, still, from what player-created continuation of Uru storyline I have seen. You seek to retrofit it all; remoulded in... in whose image exactly? Your own? Will this be a top-down structure? Do you have a writing committee going? Is that open to expand?

EDIT: Reading the first stipulation again; since you indeed do expect obedient labour, you REALLY need to prove to the talent you seek that you are worthy of their donated time and effort.



I prefer it when people do something of their own, something new-ish: Taking their first step from the foothold provided by the universe framework, but then branching out.
Tampering with the existing work of other people, without their consent, on the other hand, be they a company or just someone with a crayon drawing; that is just disrespectful.


This is ONE person's opinion.
Others will feel differently and I am most likely in a very tiny minority.
All that said; I do wish you luck with your endeavour and may well try to sneak in to reap some of its fruits, should you prove my cynicism wrong.

[Luna]

You know, I used to look surprised when people were negative about the Guild of Writers, saying it was closed to newcomers and trolling them. Now I think I understand them better.

How else should that post look? "Gee, there is this project I'm working go and this is exactly what it contains, spoiling it for everyone. Also I'll accept any shit model you sent me even if it looks like crap."

Honestly, I can understand your concerns, but shall we be slightly more polite to people? Branan did a lot of work to make the GoW appeal more to the general public, but that is all useless if we threat newcomers like this.

[keiya]

Jojon, while the point that we don't know who this is or what their motivations are is valid, you really should put it more politely. It's entirely possible they have talent, direction, and drive. It's also possible they're just a bossy jerk, of course, but until we actually know that we should be polite, even if we are cynical.

[uaOmicron]

Jojon, you raise some valid points. Part of the reason we're anonymous is because we knew there would be backlash by some in the community about changing Cyan's story. We really don't want to share our concepts in any level of detail on the story front yet, just because we want there to be that strong sense of adventure and exploration that we all love so much from a Myst game. Our basic direction is "What if after the DRC pulled out in 2004, groups of explorers banded together to continue the restoration?". Yes, it's fan fiction, but it's a fan fiction that we believe can bring a renewed focus on growth, life, and community - concepts that our team feel weren't pulled forward from the Prime journey into the later additions to the game.

As for wanting to maintain creative control, perhaps that came off more harshly than I intended it to. We ultimate are the ones "in charge", but we don't have everything figured out (really we don't have much figured out at all, on the story front) and there will be plenty of opportunity for anyone joining the project to have their say. My goal in that sentence was to dissuade people who already had their own grand vision of an Uru re-imagining, not to say that team members would be expected to stay in line and work as drones.

Now, as for proving our work... I've got a couple of screenshots I can share. They're a bit out-of-date - we're in the process of porting our changes from UU to MOUL/CWE, so I can't get any newer pictures at the moment. These are purely on the "graphical improvements" side of the fence (no spoilers)




Showcased are a couple of updated reflections, and a new 'hood lamp option. There are some other changes scattered around in them, but they're incomplete or tests. These shots weren't really meant to be publicity images

[Sirius]

The first is to make as many small graphical and gameplay improvements as possible. Replacing textures and models is the most obvious thing here, but also doing things like making more reflections dynamic and other special-effects tweaks. It's hard to give examples as those adjustments are very case-by-case. Linking is getting an overhaul.

This is quite close from what Andy was doing about Uru on CryEngine. Making models more detailed and textures better is really important to my mind, as long as you don't try to put your own contents in the game (if it keeps to add a new lamp with a new texture, I think it's OK). Using a Game Engine with better performances might help making Uru more real.
(I don't know if you saw them, the related topics are this one and this one.)

The second, and what's really the more interesting part (to me at least), is to bring a new story to Uru. The idea is to rewind the story to just after Prologue, and to create a new Uru that answers the question "What would have happened if the explorer community had been left on their own for the past seven years." We want to make changes in the Ages and the Journeys that tell the story of how a community of explorers has grown and come into its own, and how those people have helped to bring the D'ni city back to life.

Ah ! That would be great. Uru really lacks of a storyline to my mind (might be because it's hard to do it on a multiplayer game...).
In previous Myst games you had to understand what happened, how to help Atrus... Here the main goal is to free Bahro we never see, customize Relto and learn about the Fall. Again might be because of multiplayer.
I liked the DIRT concept with the idea of finding your way to the city, and who knows ? maybe try to rebuild it with others...
But that's what you said, it is "what if groups of explorers banded together to continue the restoration?" and not "put your ideas for a better Uru here".

I think improving Uru's visual quality/fix all Plasmas bugs is a great idea, but expanding Uru's story might be quite dangerous. That's why I agree with Jojon on some points.
It depends of the way you do it.

Jojon, while the point that we don't know who this is or what their motivations are is valid, you really should put it more politely. It's entirely possible they have talent, direction, and drive. It's also possible they're just a bossy jerk, of course, but until we actually know that we should be polite, even if we are cynical.

It remains quite polite to my mind, of course the speculations are not really nice, but it remains speculations and he keeps saying his own opinion and without insults.

[kaelisebonrai]

Sirius, re: Jojon and rudeness... In his own words... He put it "as rudely as possible".

I'm not sure how you could argue it was in any way polite.

Not sure why anyone here would consider expanding uru's storyline "dangerous", though...

After all, that /is/ what we as a guild do, in some way or another, or has our mission changed?

[Rhee]

I know that I am new here too, so maybe what I have to say doesn't count for much, but here goes.

I would say it is a little bit misleading when the very first post you make on these forums, within minutes of creating a forum account, is to present this grand scheme. If you were/are and established member of the GoW, bringing this issue forward to the rest of the community, looking for volunteers etc, it would not have bothered me, but when I read this thread (before Jojon made the first reply), I have to admit that I had similar sentiments to Jojon's. But I didn't think it was my place, as such a new member myself, to say anything.

Of course, I am NOT having a bad day, and anything I MIGHT have said to myself then was a little more light-hearted.

Now, maybe your forum account has been specifically created to deal with the wild influx of eager assistants pm'ing you, and you are indeed a well-respected long-term member of this community with the support of other well-respected long-term members of this community, and don't want your usual inbox flooded with messages. And maybe the new forum account is all part of the anonymous cloak-and-dagger thing too... You and some friends are branching out, but want to keep it a separate venture from your other GoW interests.

Or maybe you are new, like me, and have some massive world-changing ideas and you don't like to waste time getting on with it. I feel this way about many ideas of my own, and I have even posted once or twice about them here on these forums. Haven't received much response to them... Oh well. I will find a different way to get the help I need, eventually.

I guess what soured my milk was the whole "IMERIOUS DECREE" attitude that I heard in your primary post. Such that this is a giant, Guild-wide, Councillor-sanctioned move. You didn't SAY any of that in your post, and I don't presume to think that it is the case, but your apparent new-ness coupled with the gigantic project you have indicated produced the following effect in my brain: "Who the heck does this guy think he is?".

Call me old-fashioned, but I'm more comfortable with a "Hey, me and some good friends want to branch out and make Uru better than ever. Come read all about our ideas and plans at <insert your own forum name>! You can sign up to help too!" This immediately sets you apart as your own entity, not just an upstart ruffling things within the structure of the GoW and stepping outside of your authority. No one likes red tape, but as much as I loathe it, I know it serves it's purpose.

And. I would go on with more and more, and maybe will later, but I must dash off to an appointment.

Best of fortune in your endeavours! Regardless of my personal opinions, what you propose DOES sound exciting.

[uaOmicron]

We decided to make our initial announcement anonymous because this is a pretty radical project, and we didn't want to suffer any backlash from that. Additionally, the community can be touchy, and we wanted to get a feel for interest without the bias of our names being attached. And now everyone's ganging up on us for being anonymous. You just can't win sometimes

I do hope you all can at least understand our desire to keep our concepts close to the chest, if not the overall anonymity.


@Rhee: It's kinda funny that you say my writing sounds like a councilor...

[dendwaler]

Personally, i am all in for forming groups of talented people with different abilities. story writers, concept artists, modelers, texture developping (GIMP or photoshop artists) , and texturers.

Making little twists in existing stories, only to open up new directions for our own new created story's seems perfectly OK to me.

What i don't like is altering the original game to make it "better" in other ways then using modern gameengines.
I prefer to make additional content, perfectly fitting to the original in such way that nobody notices that it was not created by Cyan.
That new content must use new textures, as good or preferable better then the old Cyan textures.( I think however it will be hard to make better ones.
May be in resolution, but not from an artistic point of view.)

But why should we alter the existing content for other purposes then "learning the Art"
Leave it as it is.
It is Cyan's property and its their baby.
As in RL i prefer to raise my own baby learning from parents and trying to do it better.
Some will succeed in that, some not.

You claim to have a good but small team already and show that they are able to make small changes.
Then why altering the orginal?
For instance you could make a newly created hood, different in shape at all points, different in texturing as well and place a linking book inside the orginal hood only.
( in the classroom, to show where we learned the noble art of writing!)
Then you can start your new story beginning in your own hood, completely made by yourselfs, but leaving the original intact.

That seems to me a much nicer way, and not at all more difficult.