Garternay Age Creation

General debates and discussion about the Guild of Writers and Age creation

Re: Garternay Age Creation

Postby Fay » Wed May 09, 2012 5:51 am

Sirius wrote:Personally, I rather think Garternay was destroyed. It is clear (well, according to the DRC) that its sun was dying (Myst books+black journal on Tokotah building+more).
It would be nice to see an Age in which Ronay lived (not just a family Age), but I think creating an Age in which they fled would be more appropriate (something like Tehranee, just not as big). This would also fit with RAWa's rules for writing, if you want the Age to be on MOUL.
Just my opinion though. It doesn't mean any possibility of linking to Garternay is excluded.

Somehow the age survived it's demise (Any input on this would be great too).
Just a quick idea that worths mentionning:
You could say your Linking book links to another version of the Age... a version in which the sun didn't die because a D'ni fixed the link (that would be ok with the theory of the Great Tree of possibilities). The problem is, how do you link to an alternative version of an Age if you don't have the original descriptive Book...


That's a good idea, Perhaps they found the Garternay book and rewritten it.
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Re: Garternay Age Creation

Postby Deledrius » Wed May 09, 2012 7:13 am

Fay wrote:
Sirius wrote:Personally, I rather think Garternay was destroyed. It is clear (well, according to the DRC) that its sun was dying (Myst books+black journal on Tokotah building+more).
It would be nice to see an Age in which Ronay lived (not just a family Age), but I think creating an Age in which they fled would be more appropriate (something like Tehranee, just not as big). This would also fit with RAWa's rules for writing, if you want the Age to be on MOUL.
Just my opinion though. It doesn't mean any possibility of linking to Garternay is excluded.

Somehow the age survived it's demise (Any input on this would be great too).
Just a quick idea that worths mentionning:
You could say your Linking book links to another version of the Age... a version in which the sun didn't die because a D'ni fixed the link (that would be ok with the theory of the Great Tree of possibilities). The problem is, how do you link to an alternative version of an Age if you don't have the original descriptive Book...


That's a good idea, Perhaps they found the Garternay book and rewritten it.

It is a good idea.

Consistent, and non-violating. :)
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Re: Garternay Age Creation

Postby Fay » Wed May 09, 2012 7:21 am

Now I just need some help from a texture artist :)
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Re: Garternay Age Creation

Postby GPNMilano » Wed May 09, 2012 9:11 am

Sirius wrote:Personally, I rather think Garternay was destroyed. It is clear (well, according to the DRC) that its sun was dying (Myst books+black journal on Tokotah building+more).
It would be nice to see an Age in which Ronay lived (not just a family Age), but I think creating an Age in which they fled would be more appropriate (something like Tehranee, just not as big). This would also fit with RAWa's rules for writing, if you want the Age to be on MOUL.


Before I'm going to continue I wish to preface this post by saying I agree with Sirius on this one. I think the best thing for an age like this would be to create another age that the D'ni fled to, and not Garternay, as it messes up the canon considerably in several ways (which I'll outline below).

I want to point out that I'm not trying to discourage anyone from pursuing whatever age that they want to pursue. You're more than welcome to ignore everything I say and do what you want/feel is right. I just want to put in my two cents and explain why it may not be a great idea to pursue something that in the end will just confuse/annoy players like me who are sticklers for canon like myself. (I should also point out that there's been more than a few times as well that I've screwed up and violated a part of the canon. Or that my own solutions to violations of canon were not satisfactory enough for others. I'm not perfect when it comes to keeping all the stuff in check either.)

Just a quick idea that worths mentionning:
You could say your Linking book links to another version of the Age... a version in which the sun didn't die because a D'ni fixed the link (that would be ok with the theory of the Great Tree of possibilities). The problem is, how do you link to an alternative version of an Age if you don't have the original descriptive Book...


As Sirius points out, you can't create an instance of an age without the original descriptive book. Unless you're Yeesha or the Bahro in which case all the rules go out the window.

Fay wrote:That's a good idea, Perhaps they found the Garternay book and rewritten it.


There was no Garternay descriptive book to begin with. So you can't change something that never existed. The Ronay started on Garternay. It was their original homeworld. Where they discovered the Art. The only way for there to be a descriptive book for Garternay was if you rewrote the canon to say that the Ronay came from yet another empire even older and some of them settled on Garternay. This brings up a whole host of issues in it's own right.

Deledrius wrote:It is a good idea.

Consistent, and non-violating. :)


As I said above it violates the already well established history of the D'ni by suggesting that there was a pre-Garternay history to the D'ni when we only have minute details of Garternay to begin with.

There was only two ways to write a linking book. One required a descriptive book, one didn't.

The first way (Requiring knowledge of the descriptive book) is off the table. But it involves copying key phrases from the descriptive book to the linking book and establishing the link that way. This particular method didn't require you to be in the age you were linking to, but did require you to have more than a passing knowledge of the descriptive book. It was this method that the Maintainers used to first link into a newly written age via a linking book.

The second way simply requires you to be present within the age that the link will go to, and describe within the linking book your surroundings. This one was the most commonly used and is why we have books all around the ages leading back to the cavern. It allows links to specific places within an age, and no knowledge of the descriptive book is needed. The only drawback to it is you need to be present in the age.

Now, to Fay.

Fay, I hope you understand that I'm not trying to discourage or stymie you creatively. I welcome anyone to write new ages and I want to help as many people I can to write their own ages. However I have also learned that sometimes age projects can get out of control. Especially when you start with a grand idea like this one. My first age will probably never see the light of day because it broke so many rules about canon that I didn't even know existed at the time. (Time Travel, Interage linking and a whole host of history errors). I've often learned when starting with a story idea that it's best to hammer out the details before you get to work in blender. Figure out what you want to do, see if it would work in the context of established canon first. Then move on to the more intricate stuff. This way down the road you're not stuck with nowhere to go and the age just stagnates. I've got about 10 different areas started long before I made any stories for them and now I just don't know what to do with them.

Remember there's no reason you need to stop however. If this is something you feel like you need to pursue than go for it. You're the artist of this work, not me, so what you do is ultimately up to you and you alone. I just don't want to see your efforts wasted in the long run as it can get discouraging.
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Re: Garternay Age Creation

Postby Zardoz » Wed May 09, 2012 9:36 am

Actually, it would be entirely possible to try to write a descriptive book for Garternay, as the DRC D'ni FAQ makes clear:

D'ni restoration Council D'ni FAQ wrote:The manuscripts state that the D’ni believed that when the writer of an Age describes the Age, the Age is not actually created, but a link is established to a preexisting Age that most closely represents what has been written. The D’ni believed that all Ages were actually created by the Maker, and that the D’ni were imbued with a gift from the Maker to create links to the Ages.

This might even make for an interesting bit of "canon": a renegade D'ni Writer attempts to write such a book shortly after emigrating to Earth, and succeeds in creating a link to something resembling Garternay. Much conflict ensues over the legitimacy of this pseudo-Garternay, with many Bahro thrown in for extra drama.
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Re: Garternay Age Creation

Postby GPNMilano » Wed May 09, 2012 10:50 am

Zardoz wrote:Actually, it would be entirely possible to try to write a descriptive book for Garternay, as the DRC D'ni FAQ makes clear:

D'ni restoration Council D'ni FAQ wrote:The manuscripts state that the D’ni believed that when the writer of an Age describes the Age, the Age is not actually created, but a link is established to a preexisting Age that most closely represents what has been written. The D’ni believed that all Ages were actually created by the Maker, and that the D’ni were imbued with a gift from the Maker to create links to the Ages.

This might even make for an interesting bit of "canon": a renegade D'ni Writer attempts to write such a book shortly after emigrating to Earth, and succeeds in creating a link to something resembling Garternay. Much conflict ensues over the legitimacy of this pseudo-Garternay, with many Bahro thrown in for extra drama.


See this I could get behind and wouldn't violate any part of the canon. Kadish for example designed Ahnonay to look like Garternay, past, present, and future in order to convince his visitors that he was the Grower. It falls to reason that someone else in D'ni may have attempted to write a descriptive book to Garternay as well, once they had returned to D'ni. However to nail a exact link to Garternay would be extremely difficult, and highly improbable with what we know of linking. As RAWA brought up when it comes to instancing and ages. It's highly improbable for someone to write a instance of Myst island, but they could write a link to a place that resembles Myst Island. (IE Relto)
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Re: Garternay Age Creation

Postby Fay » Wed May 09, 2012 1:48 pm

GPNMilano wrote:
Zardoz wrote:Actually, it would be entirely possible to try to write a descriptive book for Garternay, as the DRC D'ni FAQ makes clear:

D'ni restoration Council D'ni FAQ wrote:The manuscripts state that the D’ni believed that when the writer of an Age describes the Age, the Age is not actually created, but a link is established to a preexisting Age that most closely represents what has been written. The D’ni believed that all Ages were actually created by the Maker, and that the D’ni were imbued with a gift from the Maker to create links to the Ages.

This might even make for an interesting bit of "canon": a renegade D'ni Writer attempts to write such a book shortly after emigrating to Earth, and succeeds in creating a link to something resembling Garternay. Much conflict ensues over the legitimacy of this pseudo-Garternay, with many Bahro thrown in for extra drama.


See this I could get behind and wouldn't violate any part of the canon. Kadish for example designed Ahnonay to look like Garternay, past, present, and future in order to convince his visitors that he was the Grower. It falls to reason that someone else in D'ni may have attempted to write a descriptive book to Garternay as well, once they had returned to D'ni. However to nail a exact link to Garternay would be extremely difficult, and highly improbable with what we know of linking. As RAWA brought up when it comes to instancing and ages. It's highly improbable for someone to write a instance of Myst island, but they could write a link to a place that resembles Myst Island. (IE Relto)


Perhaps this person who wrote the book to Garternay didn't get it spot on and so the Garternay in that book still exist (Either intentionally or not). It's like in the books Gehn was writing, he kept 'altering' bits of the ages he worked on, Creating basically links to the age in parallel universes. I mean the idea of the linking books is that the ages are real places/planets out there in the universe that existed in that form at some point in time paste/future/present in this or parallel universes. It's entirely possible that someone tried to recreate Garternay.

Alternatively perhaps and a more exciting notion could be that they could've covered up the truth behind why they fled Garternay, There is the speculation that the Ronay and Bahro both originate from Garternay. That the Bahro like the Ronay evolved there. Perhaps on Garternay the Ronay we're enslaved to the Bahro? That they learned the writing skills of ages in secret from the Bahro. It's clear the Bahro are better at creating links than the D'ni and it always seemed to me that there was a lot of hunger for power running in the bloodlines of the D'ni, An inability to control such power, to be a grower.

The Bahro could've tried to subdue the Ronay, To withold that power from them knowing the Ronay weren't yet ready to take on such power but the Ronay could have become too smart by learning to write ages and escaping the Bahro enslaving them in return (Which was never explained as to how that happened but this could explain how they did). That if the Bahro didn't comply with being enslaved they would be wiped out like what happened in D'ni. That the power wasn't returned to the Bahro till we gave them the tablet back in EoA.
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Re: Garternay Age Creation

Postby cskid13 » Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:51 pm

Any news on this project?
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