Questions regarding UAM

General debates and discussion about the Guild of Writers and Age creation

Questions regarding UAM

Postby Sirius » Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:39 pm

Following up on yesterday's heated debate on the MOULa forums (which was removed by a moderator before I had a chance to reply), I had some questions about the UAM Shard (NOT the UAM tool, NOT Deep Island's UAM database).

I thought the UAM Shard was not maintained and unused since Dustin left the forums years ago. And all of a sudden I learn that not only is it alive and kicking, but people can even register AND upload their own Ages on it AND that UAM redistributes the game files for free. What the heck ?

Questions:
  • How comes we don't even have a warning about this anywhere on the forums when obviously not all people are aware of the issue ? MOUL moderators think it's clever to remove any reference to it, which certainly doesn't do any good. But maybe we can at least have a disclamer on the GoW wiki/forum, or something ? That's vital information, and while I don't check the MOUL forums regularly, you'd think in all the years I've been poking at the GoW's forums I'd be aware of the issue. Plus, promoting DI's UruAgeManager means new people will eventually mistake it with the UAM Shard. Either way, history is bound to repeat itself.
  • How can people still register to UAM, when the subscription process involves emailing Dustin ? AFAIK, Dustin doesn't answer emails.
  • Why would UAM redistribute Uru files in the first place ? Dustin had his issues, but that definitely doesn't sound like something he'd do. And when did people notice UAM does this ? I haven't found any topic about it.
  • Why do some Ages (in yesterday's case, it was the Argosy Age) get released on the UAM Shard only and we don't even have them on DI ? DI and it's download database is the most used platform and the one up to date. Or maybe the Age is about to be released on both Shards in the near future ?

Also, in the said topic, someone mentioned Dulcamara's Alabaster Age was running much smoothly on UAM Shard, and hinted it might be because the tweaked version I did not long ago was uploaded to it.
It could simply be that the UAM Shard is more stable than DI. Or it could not.
Regardless, please know that I do not want this file (or any of the files I ever made) to be put on this server, just because I do not want to promote public piracy. Especially when it's detrimental to Deep Island.
Also, friendly reminder: I'm generally very open-minded towards sharing things, but people should at least notify me if they're going to publicly use my stuff somewhere else - that's just common courtesy.
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Re: Questions regarding UAM

Postby Korovev » Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:25 am

Sirius wrote:How can people still register to UAM, when the subscription process involves emailing Dustin ? AFAIK, Dustin doesn't answer emails.

Looks like he does. The UAM shard is mostly being mentioned in Facebook (mostly “only in UAM shard” posts that show stuff that is also in Deep Island). The first reference I could find is from Jan 11th, 2016; one of the most interesting might be this one.
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Sirius wrote:Why would UAM redistribute Uru files in the first place ? Dustin had his issues, but that definitely doesn't sound like something he'd do. And when did people notice UAM does this ? I haven't found any topic about it.

There are three, rather strong evidences. First, from the installation page [link removed]:
Run the installer found here: [1]
That's it! (Ages will be downloaded as you link to them, so it will take a while to link during your first visit to an Age.)

Second, from last AGM’s chatlog:
(04/01 13:56:34) Theo: One of it's attractions is that UAM shard is all download based, no Uru:CC disks required.

Third, the old thread in this very forum.

I’m not going to get into that shard myself, so I have no way to personally verify that it does download every file.
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Sirius wrote:Also, in the said topic, someone mentioned Dulcamara's Alabaster Age was running much smoothly on UAM Shard, and hinted it might be because the tweaked version I did not long ago was uploaded to it.
It could simply be that the UAM Shard is more stable than DI. Or it could not.

Maybe, mine was a conjecture. But, again from Facebook, we do know that UAM now has the two-parts version of Alabaster.
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Sirius wrote:Why do some Ages (in yesterday's case, it was the Argosy Age) get released on the UAM Shard only and we don't even have them on DI ?

I’ve asked that, but nobody seems to have a clear answer (though it might just be that Diafero is very busy these days). What’s certain is that there are (at least) two Age creators who are actively contributing to the UAM shard.
By the way, it’s not one but four new Ages: Laki’anay, Giloto, Argosy and Cholonay. Those Ages are apparently planned to appear in DI “at some time in the near future”:
(04/01 13:53:08) Theo: It is our intent to launch them in Uru: Deep Island as well at some time in the near future.
Last edited by Korovev on Wed May 10, 2017 2:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Questions regarding UAM

Postby Karkadann » Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:35 pm

I was kinda wondering about this as well, I looked at the last update on the UAM and it was 2011. where as the DI was updated about two months ago
then I looked at the date on the chat log

Show Spoiler


From there it all made sense, It was a very bad day to have an AGM.
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Re: Questions regarding UAM

Postby Tsar Hoikas » Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:23 pm

About a year before you joined, Sirius, I busted up a ring of folks who were sharing a torrent for MOUL files. They were being really obvious about it, posting on the public forum and PMing pretty much every registered user. This was back before MOULa, and we had been asked by Cyan to not do anything too untoward in the public, so this was a no-no. When I busted it all up, Dustin took major offense to it. He claims everything was deleted, but I have actually never deleted a single thing from this forum (aside from perhaps major swear words)--it's all stored away in a hidden forum for moments just like this. Anyhow, I'm not really surprised. If you look hard enough, you might be able to find Dustin's first GBCW message from 2006/2007-ish (not his current "retirement" message where he insults me) in which he blasts Cyan for about 10 pages of diatribe. :|.

On a tangentially related subject, it always disappoints me when people link to Dustin's wiki on this forum, considering that at the top of every page on that wiki is a link to an "account" where I am brutally attacked. It's a slap in the face, really, considering I put down a good sum of my own check to run this place. And it's not some cheap box running in the basement, either. But I guess a lot of people understand nuance like that.
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Re: Questions regarding UAM

Postby Korovev » Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:41 am

You know I don’t link that wiki lightly; I’ve put the link only for documentation [but later removed it]. I’d rather drop the topic, but I doubt this will be the last we’ll hear about that shard :roll:
Last edited by Korovev on Wed May 10, 2017 2:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Questions regarding UAM

Postby Dulcamara » Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:52 am

I AM SO SORRY :?

I did not know that everyone is in a fight. Even now I do not understand very well what your are talking about here. My english is not so good and I only understand so much that there is a problem with Dustin.
Well, I sent him an email in 2016 :

Hello Dustin
i am Dulcamara, i am a age writer from Germany.
I know that you have previously loaded no more new ages in your shard.
I often meet people in Moula visit your shard, but do not know my Ages.
Is there any chance to load my ages in your shard.
To show people how many work i effort in this ages?

For now there are 4 Ages
Elodea (Upperworld)
ElodeasUnerwelt (Underworld)
ElodeasTunnelgang (Tunelpassage)
ElodeasSchatzkammern (Treasurerooms)

If it is not possible, could you please give me an Accountment for the UAM Shard
with Avatarname Dulcamara?


He said he would no longer look about UAM shard, but he wanted to upload the data anyway.

So I think I am the cause of all evil. :( :(

Now i gave him Alabaster to upload. And yes it works better in UAM, but i think only becouse i splitted it in two ages. I can use cheats in UAM so i can test it . After that i wanted to upload it in Deep Island. My friends in the H'Uru shard have no time to test it with me and I do not want to give Diafero such a lot of work becouse he is very busy.
That is the same with the age writers Lakiany etc. They only want to test it, before they give it to the Deep Island shard.

I apologize for everything I did. But Dustin is not to blame.

Maybe I should just stop building, it's all so complicated .....
And I always understand only fragments of what is said. :(
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Re: Questions regarding UAM

Postby Christian Walther » Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:05 am

(I feel it’s appropriate to respond to Dulcamara in German. It’s a summary of the situation as far as I understand it. Those of you who don’t read it, run it through a translator or ask me, I’m not prophylactically spending the effort to translate everything.)

Dulcamara, du hast nichts falsches getan und brauchst dich nicht zu entschuldigen (und erst recht nicht aufzuhören, fantastische Ages zu bauen).

Alles, worum es geht, ist dass manche Leute nicht einverstanden sind mit Dustins Entscheidung, auf dem UAM Shard die Files von URU CC zum Download anzubieten, was eine Urheberrechtsverletzung ist.

Der Shard ist ja schon alt, und das Thema ist etwas in Vergessenheit geraten, aber kürzlich wieder hochgekocht, als neue Ages auf dem Shard öffentlich angekündigt wurden. Manche Leute fürchten, dass solche öffentlichen Hinweise auf einen Shard, der sich in rechtlichen Grauzonen bewegt (wobei allerdings gesagt werden muss, dass sich diverses von was wir hier tun in rechtlichen Grauzonen bewegt, wenn auch nicht derart eklatant), Cyan oder unser Verhältnis zu Cyan in Schwierigkeiten bringen könnten, und sprechen sich deshalb vehement dagegen aus.

Der Grund, warum du resp. Alabaster ins Spiel kam, war die Aussage von TrapperDave, dass Alabaster auf dem UAM Shard besser laufe als auf Deep Island, woraus Korov'ev den Verdacht zog, dass auf dem UAM Shard möglicherweise die von Sirius nachbearbeitete Version laufe, womit Sirius nicht einverstanden wäre. Du hast diesen Verdacht wohl nun gerade entkräftet.
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Re: Questions regarding UAM

Postby Dulcamara » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:26 am

Ich danke dir so sehr für die Veranschaulichung Christian.
Endlich verstehe ich worum es geht. :oops:

Und ja, seit ich Alabaster in zwei Teile aufgeteilt habe, läuft es besser. Ich muss trotzdem noch ein paar Kleinigkeiten ändern.
Ausserdem warte ich auf Dendwaler der sich meine Blendfiles anschauen wollte und vielleicht kann er mir sagen, was ich noch verbessern sollte, damit es flüssiger läuft.
Dann möchte ich es gerne wieder in Deep Island hochladen.

Liebe Grüße
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Re: Questions regarding UAM

Postby dendwaler » Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:32 am

Nur zur Komplettierung,

Ich habe die files empfangen und es ist mir auch gelungen das selber zu exportieren inclusive alle dazu gehorenden Texturen.
Ich war uberrascht wie schon , klompleziert , und visual angenehm dieser Welt ist aufgebaut.
Viele Komplimenten !
Es ist tatsachlich eine Meister Aufgabe dass herzustellen.

Nach meiner hinsicht stehen die Problemen im relation mit visregions und danit verknupften PRP files.
Nicht so einfach zu ubersehen,
Ich soll weiter nichts daruber rapportieren, aber es zusammen mit Dulcamara abhandeln.
Aber das dauert bestimmt eine Weile.

Dulcamara, du hast nichts falsches getan und brauchst dich nicht zu entschuldigen (und erst recht nicht aufzuhören, fantastische Ages zu bauen).


Dass kann ich nur unterschreiben!
Es ist auserdem unmoglich indem mann spater denn vom anfang ab eintritt , und dann alles was herum geht wissen soll.
Those wonderfull Worlds are called " Ages" , because that is what it takes to build one.

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Re: Questions regarding UAM

Postby Korovev » Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:22 am

Sorry Dulcamara, my previous post sounded like accusing, which wasn’t the intention. I’m thankful for your work and hope to see more of it in the future! Unfortunately my German is limited to a few tourist phrases, so I have to use English ;)

I have nothing against more shards (there has been a time when there were dozens!), the problem is the ‘shade of grey’ they have.

Shards like Deep Island have a ‘light’ shade of grey: to play, you need to modify the offline game. Cyan cannot officially approve (the EULA forbids it), but
  • you still need to buy a copy of the game from Cyan, so no harm is done;
  • they have praised fan Ages, indirectly approving the modifications;
  • threads about DI in the MOULa forum currently get locked, but usually not deleted.

The ‘UAM’ shard has a far darker shade of grey: in addition to modifying the game, the server allows a player to download any missing file from their Uru folder, including the data from the offline game.
This means that even someone who never bought the offline game could play the whole game for free. This is piracy, or very close to it.
If the ‘UAM’ shard does not, in fact, allow to download the whole game, then I and the others will have no more objections against it. Until then, I will advise people against playing on it.

My irritiation comes from people who think that “it runs better” and “it is free” justifies playing on a shard that promotes piracy.
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