Questions regarding UAM

General debates and discussion about the Guild of Writers and Age creation

Re: Questions regarding UAM

Postby Annabelle » Tue May 09, 2017 4:49 pm

So much fuzz for such little, good heaven!

I stated my point of views on this topic. I said what I think. I read answers coming from the other explorers (Doobes, Dave, Korovev, Rocketdog, Karkadann, etc.) They are entitled to their own opinions and I respect them. I hope they do respect mine in return even though we might be on opposite poles for some.

No lives are at stake here. I'm not going to add anything else on this topic (not that I think the debate is sterile or going in good or wrong direction), I just said what I needed.

It's a game server... if tomorrow it's close, well... I'll go elsewhere. if tomorrow it's open, well... I might go there or not. One thing for sure with me: I like my freedom and no one will refrain me of going where I want or doing what I want!

Let's remember one important thing: playing should be fun. If playing becomes something else, then it's not playing anymore...

All I want is respect, plain and simple! So keep it low on calling my name and associate it with ideas!

EDIT: Toned down just a little bit
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Re: Questions regarding UAM

Postby rocketdog » Tue May 09, 2017 5:13 pm

Hi Korovev

I went to the URU Live forum and searched UAM, there are 126 pages of posts that mention the UAM. If there are 10 posts per page that would be 1260 times. In skimming over the posts they are talking about adding ages to the UAM. I Have no way of knowing why the one post that you mentioned was deleted without being able to see it.

And yes I do agree, Cyan is not worried about Deep Island but they are not sanctioning it either. I have no information that Cyan is worried about the UAM and they are not sanctioning it as well. As far as I know no post has ever been deleted or zipped regarding Deep Island.

Korovev I don't want to argue or debate this with you that's not why I'm here. There is bad blood between the two sides and I believe that is at the very least part of the problem. There have been statements made here in this post that are blown way out of proportion. When you replied to me you mentioned one zipped post but neglected to say that there are over a thousand mentions of the UAM that were not removed.

Unfortunately, I don't know that this mess can ever be fixed. I can only tell you what I know to be true and how I feel. Having first-hand knowledge of Patent issues myself I can say without a doubt that no one, not even large corporations take Cease and Desist orders as lightly as you suggest. A Cease and Desist order is a tolerant way of telling the offender that the next step is a lawsuit. And it is not required by law but it gives the offender a chance to correct the problem. Courts are not nice to people or company's that don't take the opportunity to correct the problem if there is one.

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Re: Questions regarding UAM

Postby TrapperDave » Tue May 09, 2017 5:20 pm

Korovev said:
Consider this post. Or this one. Or this one. Those threads aren’t even locked. If Cyan was worried about legal repercussions, wouldn’t they delete those posts and warn the posters? The one thread where UAM was discussed, instead, got zapped.


This is totally not true!
This post is still on the Moula forum : http://mystonline.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=28601 alive and well.
When some of the same people here, namely you, doobes, and Adam posted nasty remarks on the Moula forum, I had said I wish I could delete the entire thread in order to keep the peace.
Especially when Adam said, "This takes the cake", I wanted the entire thread deleted that morning. But coming home after a days work I saw it was cleaned, but not zapped.
Instead all the nasty remarks from certain people were only deleted. The original thread is alive and well to this day ! Maybe certain people are blocked or locked out ?
I went back in and made an edit, removing reference to the UAM shard, but I did not have to do that. I was trying to avoid additional nasty remarks and calm things down.

The thread is still up and not locked, additional posts have been made well after the event was over. I said this earlier in the thread and now have to repeat it again. This is only a vicious circle leading nowhere.

If you are going to use this kind of untruthful information to say Deep Island and Gehn are approved by Cyan.
Then the UAM shard is also equally approved by your same type of reasoning. Because it stated " UAM shard as a secondary location" in addition to UruTunes Hood in the cavern, and it was left there, not zapped as you claim !

If we can not have an intelligent discussion or ask legitimate questions without being slammed with nasty remarks and untruths, then I see no hope here.
Slamming other players for opinions is not the way to discuss things. I hate the animosity here and attacking peeps for no good reason. I would be the first to admit I was wrong if I saw the truth.
Tearing people apart word for word is not solving the issue as you wished to do at the beginning of this thread.

I'm fed up ! .. I do not need this kind of dribble ! I don't need the cavern and all of this. It's yours and also my share of the CAVCON is yours also. No need to worry about me, dictate to the others.
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Re: Questions regarding UAM

Postby rocketdog » Tue May 09, 2017 6:15 pm

TrapperDave

Please don't quit if you need to don't come to this post anymore but don't quit the game. I don't think anyone here would want that even if they don't agree with you.

To the others here I hope you all agree enough has been said, unless someone has an Idea of how this can be fixed. The only way I can see that happening is for both parties to agree to disagree on some issues and I don't see that happening. Deep Island will be Deep Island and the UAM will be the UAM. How great it would be if the people involved would all be working together.

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Re: Questions regarding UAM

Postby Doobes » Tue May 09, 2017 7:04 pm

Karkadann wrote:How bout this, we contact Cyan and UBI, about this issue and wait, until they respond we call a sees fire


Again, we shouldn't have to. If we do that, it will most likely raise a lot of issues over open source and bring down a legal storm which nobody really wants. WE might have a "cease fire", but there'd likely be a new "battle" with different opponents on the horizon. And one side has far bigger legal "guns".

Sirius wrote:On the other hand, we have people like Doobes, Korovev or Annabelle either attacking everyone on sight, heating the debate just to "educate people", or even saying "I don't care about what's illegal/convenient and I'm right to do so, go f-- yourselves".


I have made no personal attacks. Neither has Kor. And Annabelle certainly did not tell anyone to "go f--- yourselves". People seem to think that, because we're disagreeing with them and trying to drive this rather important point home, we're insulting them, when in fact, that couldn't be further from the truth. The only person I hold in the wrong over any of this is the shard owner, who is illegally hosting Cyan's content without their permission.

And I will say again: Nobody is attacking Age builders for testing their Ages! It's something I encourage in others and have written quite a few tutorials to help anyone interested along in that pursuit. Again, the fact they are acknowledging the situation and looking into it is something for which I applaud them.

Sirius wrote:Now myself, TrapperDave, Rocketdog and Karkadann try to propose actual solutions to the UAM problem instead of arguing about which Shard may or may not be legal. I was actually expecting the topic to finally come up with a good plan to solve the UAM problem. But Doobes and Korovev merely continue on the Shard-legality topic, belittling everyone's propositions while they are at it. Yet they make no effort to help finding a good solution, or propose a way to have people prefer DI over UAM, or anything. This is sterile, and quite frankly disappointing.


rocketdog wrote:To the others here I hope you all agree enough has been said, unless someone has an Idea of how this can be fixed.


The solutions offered were OK but none address the one big underlying problem: the UAM shard's server still offers illegal content for free download. If Dustin takes Cyan's files off the server and sets it to a DI-like installation procedure (ie download the client and basic game files, then buy the full game to play), then while it still wouldn't be 100 percent kosher (DI isn't either), it'd be a billion times better and less legally problematic. Since it'll be the same client build, it should still function for those who couldn't get DI to work.
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Re: Questions regarding UAM

Postby Karkadann » Tue May 09, 2017 11:20 pm

Wow which ones better the UAM or the DI? I have heard nothing from Diafero or Dustin. As far as legalities are concerned it seems to be an issue they have to deal with. We can talk about this until we're blue in the face, if they are not willing to change they won't. Now whether Dustin has a loosely written license of some sort to do what he's doing I don't know. Why Cyan and UBI has turned a blind eye to it im not sure. What I do know is we have two shards with the older Until Uru game engine and UBI and Cyan has said nothing about shutting them down. This thread may or may not have caught there attention, if it did the chances of legal action increases to both DI and UAM.
Then there was the mention of omerta hmm violating the code of silence surrounding the DI and the UAM might kill both shards.

What do we do, this site..............its about creating ages for the most part and this dramatic Steer Manure kinda compromises the creative processes. How about we turn it into a friendly competition. We know the UAM is easier to install and we know why. so how do we encourage more people to go threw the trouble of installing the DI. How about more fan ages opening new areas or events. Several years ago I found a list of files needed to get the Garrison wall working, I posted it here someplace in hopes that somebody could get it working. It took them a while but THEY DID IT. Has anyone ever had a Garrison wall tournament Event on the DI, Parties are great but all you do is type /dance and chat back and forth I made some board game a while back that are so old they transcend language. you don't realy need to be able to speak the same language to play, does any one ever use them? ever consider a chess tournament Iv got a working curling stone age, you build a frozen lake type environment and its yours, build a grassy feild age I can give you a full size soccer field and crochet game, and as long as we're talking about illegal stuff, are you working on a desert type age I can give you some peyote cactus big enough to build a house out of, all free of charge and free of malicious software, speaking of malicious software I also have a full size wooden horse, which is my idea of a Trojan horse, these are only a few odd and ends I have built in Max over the years. you want a fire marble how about a marble that is on fire. (a simple with a partial emitter attached)

Again only to name a few, this site is about creativity, sharing what you have, showing off what you did getting help and helping others, creating and exploring new world. escaping reality with out getting high, running and jumping when your confined to a wheel chair.

I think its time we get back on trek don't you
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Re: Questions regarding UAM

Postby Korovev » Wed May 10, 2017 1:22 am

Interesting ethics are being push forward here:
Calling out on people who keep playing on (and defending) a pirate shard after they’ve been made well aware of it, is “petit”.
Forcing people to agree through emotional blackmail (“agree or I leave the community”), is not “petit”.
And somehow I am the disgusting one.


Sirius wrote:Some people like Rocketdog, Dulcamara and Theo explain calmly why they use UAM, and explain they didn't know about all the legal issues around it. They even go as far as apologize for it.

If I park on areas reserved to disabled people, then calmly explain to the policeman why I parked there, and explain I didn’t know about the legal issues, even go as far as apologize for it, after that would I be excused if I kept parking on said reserved areas? Is the correct action to stop parking there, or to say “I can park wherever I want”?


rocketdog wrote:I went to the URU Live forum and searched UAM, there are 126 pages of posts that mention the UAM.

That’s the Uru Age Manager. The UAM shard gets the name from it, but it’s not the same thing.

As far as C&D orders, like it has been said, maybe Cyan just have no time to dedicate to a lawsuit. I have no special insights into Cyan legals, but the thing seems simple to me: Uru:CC is still a paid product, so if a server lets you download it for free, that server is not doing something nice towards Cyan (or Ubi). I think being nice to Cyan (or Ubi) is a rather important step if we want fan Ages on MO:ULa. Or if we want MO:ULa at all.


TrapperDave wrote:This is totally not true!
This post is still on the Moula forum ... alive and well.

Sure, there are posts there in which the UAM shard is mentioned again; I suspect it’s only a matter of time before that thread gets zapped again or locked.


Karkadann wrote:How about we turn it into a friendly competition.

That’s finally something I can support, only noting that one of the contenders is cheating :D
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Re: Questions regarding UAM

Postby Doobes » Wed May 10, 2017 3:16 am

Karkadann wrote:What do we do, this site..............its about creating ages for the most part and this dramatic Steer Manure kinda compromises the creative processes.
(...)
Again only to name a few, this site is about creativity, sharing what you have, showing off what you did getting help and helping others, creating and exploring new world. escaping reality with out getting high, running and jumping when your confined to a wheel chair.

I think its time we get back on trek don't you


Discussing the legality of one shard has absolutely nothing to do with Age building aside from the fact people were using the aforementioned shard to test Ages...which is fine in a private setting. Also, the shard offering up fan content publicly is also fine.

The issue, once again, is that it also publicly offers up Cyan's content, which is *not* free. Whether Dustin has been notified that that's illegal and simply hasn't taken down the files yet is moot. That behaviour really should *not* be encouraged.

Also, TrapperDave? Taking issue with one part of your party because it took place on UAM shard is not "nasty remarks". In fact, as a member of the Guild of Messengers and a one-time Guild Master, I was one of the people chiefly responsible for promoting such parties via the Guild's site and social media...a job that has been expertly done by Korov'ev in recent months.

Nowhere did any of us...Kor, Hoikas, or myself...speak anything but the facts, nor did anything devolve into personal attacks. If you took it that way, I apologize, as that was not my intent, and I doubt it was the intent of the others as well.
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Re: Questions regarding UAM

Postby Karkadann » Wed May 10, 2017 7:11 am

Oh Dear f***** God
Unless you have some kind of woohoo super power that allows you to get in Dustin's head, causing his neurotransmitters to move in a different direction, producing new synaptic threads in addition to the old ones or possibly severing the old synaptic threads YOUR NOT GOING TO CHANGE HIM any more then we can change you. which does suggest this whole conversation is a waist of time because without legal action nothing will change.

his shard his problem, if you dont like it dont go there
if it where up to me I would give you guys an ultimatum
either stop this bickering or both shards die

You must except that there are some things in life you can not change
There are somethings you can change
You need to know the difference between the two
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Re: Questions regarding UAM

Postby Karkadann » Wed May 10, 2017 8:16 am

You will have to except that you can not control what others do with Uru CC
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