MOUL security discussion

[belford]

BAD, if you're right, you don't need to convince us you're right. Cyan is fully capable of being close-mouthed without your help.

As for Cyan, I hope they *do* tell us what they want us to do to make the ages work. That's the point here. Everyone working on an Age needs to know that information, so it *will* be shared with this entire board, by definition. Nobody benefits from us being ignorant.

Chacal wants to get out in front and start working that stuff out now. That's good. The alternative is to replay the scene from _UHF_ with the blind man solving the Rubik's Cube: "Is that right? No? Is that right? No?"

[Tsar Hoikas]

would like some volunteer help from knowledgeable people here

You apparently do not know Cyan. They do not accept outside help unless they want to screw you over. I speak from personal experience, but (unfortunately) cannot legally tell my anecdote about that.

[Tomala]

[BAD]

I don't think you understood my points.

We will be told what to do to make ages for MOUL. That is a fact. We will all not be granted access to Cyan's information. That is also a fact.

Most likely it will occur that some people on this board will be put under NDA to create a way for the GOW to make ages that will comply with MOUL. They will need to have access to the server structure and game code to do that. That is why it will only be those under an NDA.

Those people will release something to the rest of the GOW whether it be a tool or some information. Either way it will be filtered through trusted sources.

We will not be left in the dark, but Cyan will protect their copyrights.

My other point is that we will not be held responsible for the MOUL servers in anyway. There is no benefit for Cyan to allow a bunch of forum members access to their server structure (especially a forum that allows open membership). If anything it would be a big risk.

UU (IMHO) was the best situation for age building, and I am sad that it was taken away before we could get rolling on it more. We had access to the server software. The only thing that would have made it easier was access to the client source code.

[Chacal]

Yes, yes, BAD, I get your point, that information will not be made public by Cyan, we all know that. I said I hoped they would share it, I didn't say they would post it on a public forum. Governments and large organizations share their security information with me all the time and I don't go about posting them on forums. Our discussions are public, proprietary information is not. I have no qualms about private discussions and NDAs, after all this is not guild matter.

What I'm trying to do is start a working group of people interested in, or competent in, IT security, that could provide helpful input or feedback to Cyan. I can help, and I know some people here could too. Even if Cyan declines the offer, it remains a valid topic and those interested should continue discussing it. It's not as if I'm trying to impose this on the whole guild.

I was around (lurking) in 2004-2005 and I remember things getting sour for developers back then. I remember the C&D letters from Cyan. That was then. We'll see if this is now. By stirring that old stinky pot, you're just making the topic unsavory before we get anywhere. And probably repelling any Cyan employee who might have been interested in participating following my invitation.

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Footnote: sorry for nitpicking, but a possible future event cannot be called "fact".

[BAD]

I was just giving my impressions.... But if you would rather I stay out of this discussion, that is fine. I was just enjoying the debate.

[Chacal]

lol
No, of course not, I was under the impression you were trying to stifle the debate.
I value your input and always enjoy a debate.

Maybe the "stinking pot" metaphor was too strong, and anyway that comment was directed more at Hoikas than you.

[Tsar Hoikas]

This was after the "stinking pot era" as you so dubbed it. I speak from personal experience of being used and thrown out on my butt, like some kind of primitive gorilla.

Oh... I think you missed BAD's point

[BAD]

Hoikas may be a bit bitter......

There will be explanation of why someday......

[Whilyam]

I agree with the sentiment that we shouldn't worry about Cyan server security. While, yes, we'd lose the game we love if it were hacked, so would Cyan. To put it colder, they'd not like losing a source of funding. So I'm confident that, when the time comes, they'll be ready or do their best.

Also, there's a real good reason people are still telling people not to use the flymode patch. It doesn't work in MOUL. Even if it did, it would be murder on the servers. That isn't about hacking, it's just common sense.