UU discussion

[Marten]

Each of you have valid points.

I'm not going to get back into the other thread, though; Chacal seems to have narrowed the scope of the discussion to exclude dependencies on what Cyan may or may not do, and that is probably for the best.

I'm certain the topic will resume again at some later date (it is inevitable); I'll try to include my opinions more politely then.

[Chacal]

By nature, Writers are dreamers, artists, hackers, scientists. Otherwise we wouldn't be here.
Any time we spend building things, be it in Blender or on the forum, isn't wasted time.
It would be too bad if we limited our discussions based on what we think Cyan will do.
I can understand that some here were burned before and don't wish to go through it again.
That's OK, there are many other things to discuss.
Meanwhile, others should be allowed to go ahead.
Because we never know,
Maybe Cyan has changed, maybe it hasn't.
This looks like a poem, but it isn't.

[Tomala]

By nature, Writers are dreamers, artists, hackers, scientists. Otherwise we wouldn't be here.
Any time we spend building things, be it in Blender or on the forum, isn't wasted time. Unless it was made in Until Uru. Then it was a waste of time.

Fixed.

[D'Lanor]

Why should we expect change from a group which has shown us day in and day out what they will do with outside help?

I see no need to continue with fruitless attempts to garner support, help, nor anything else from Cyan. They have done nothing but hurt Age Creation since the whispers of Uru Live's return came to the surface. I hope that you will forgive my pessimism, but I have dealt with more than you have on the subject and know what I speak of.

I doubt you have dealt more with Cyan than I have and personally I have had nothing but pleasant experiences. I guess the key is not to let youthful enthiusiasm manage your expectations.

One thing that worries me though is how you could possibly represent the Guild of Writers as Guild Councillor of Tool Development with such a bitter attitude. Wouldn't this job require you to sit around the table with Cyan at some point?

[Tsar Hoikas]

One thing that worries me though is how you could possibly represent the Guild of Writers as Guild Councillor of Tool Development with such a bitter attitude. Wouldn't this job require you to sit around the table with Cyan at some point?

The same way that a local doctor's office deals with bad patients. They show the patient the utmost respect and cooperate with them despite how much trouble and irritation said patient has caused them. I am capable of putting aside ill feelings for the betterment of Age Creation...

As for being bitter about my dealings, two people might not see the same issue in the same way nor have had the same experiences. You've had yours, and I've had mine. Since you have had dealings of a positive nature with Cyan, then I won't force my negative viewpoint on you. My points were mainly directed at those who have never dealt with Cyan personally.

[Dovahn]

But for people who have never dealt with Cyan, they have no way of knowing whether your experiences are the norm, or if most people have good experiences.

Sorry; I don't want to get in the middle of this, but I'm just worried that negative comments about Cyan might disappoint an "uninitiated" (someone who doesn't know as much about Cyan) a bit unduly.

[andylegate]

I guess in the future when we make statements about how we feel about Cyan, we should include a statement that says "This is my own personal feeling and is subjective. For those of you that have had no experience with this, please remember to reserve your own judgement until you, yourself have had an experience to draw upon. Have a nice day."

Yes, I'm being a bit sarcastic here. I would hope that most people will think for themselves and not decide to feel one way or another until they themselves have a reason to feel that way.

I'm not too worried about Hoikas, as long as he shows that personal feelings can be set aside for the greater good so to speak. However, I can understand where he is coming from too. Trust and enthusiasm is very easy to give. Once you've had either or both messed with, it can be hard to get those feelings back. I'm sure that as long as Hoikas doesn't have a repeat experience with Cyan like in the past everything will be fine.

Feelings both of a positive and negative nature have their purpose. One can give enthusiasm, while the other can bring caution. It's good to have a healthy dose of both.
As the saying goes: "Hope for the best, expect the worst."

[BAD]

I have had just as much dealings with Cyan as D'lanor. Possibly more. My personal thoughts?

It's been a mixed bag. Sometimes I have had great dealings with Cyan. Other times I felt used.

This is how any business may conduct themselves. Sometimes you have to take when you can. No business survived by being completely altruistic.

[Whilyam]

My opinion (coming from someone who has had NO dealings with Cyan) is that we should not worry about trying to bring Cyan in, not because it is a "fruitless attempt" but because of the work we need to do in getting this Guild together. What Cyan will do it will do and pressuring them to get them to come and help us fortify the Age-writing process to lessen the threats posed is going to do nothing, in my opinion, than make our so-far-beneficial group into an annoying pest. While being annoying has its places, this is not one of them. A solid organization and a robust hierarchy of students who refine their craft based on the teachings of their peers I think should be the first agenda for the writers and not security discussions about an infrastructure which is not in place for ages which have not been written because no one has time due to the security discussions. We are the Writer's Guild, not the Legislators, nor the Maintainers...

[D'Lanor]

This is how any business may conduct themselves. Sometimes you have to take when you can. No business survived by being completely altruistic.

Exactly. Perhaps some people here are too young to have had regular jobs. So welcome to the corporate world. As far as business companies go Cyan is pretty decent. Of course I did not always get my way when dealing with Cyan but there is nothing unfair about that. Believe me, they compare very favorably to all of the companies I worked (and still work) for to make a living.