ELODEA and ALABASTER Update

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Re: ELODEA and ALABASTER Update

Postby Dulcamara » Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:27 am

Deledrius wrote:
From your description, it sounds like a real team effort, even if it's informal and loose. There are many ways of working together. The Open Source software movement alone has many different models of teamwork, many of which involve things working together despite people never having direct interaction. We all contribute in our own ways, and someone like you brings it all together and produces something special.


Ok, forgive me if i seen it in another way. But i am often feel alone with my problems.
I do not want to blame anyone.

I thank you very much for your opinion.
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Re: ELODEA and ALABASTER Update

Postby Deledrius » Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:51 am

Ah, I see. I think then that perhaps I misunderstood your meaning. I'm sorry you feel so alone here.

I don't pay as much attention to the goings-on of things on Deep Island since I'm busy with other projects and Diafero has things well in hand here. I really wish we had some way of energizing the Age building and fan-Age-playing portions of our community more. It can be difficult for us all to find continued motivation, I think.
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Re: ELODEA and ALABASTER Update

Postby Sirius » Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:37 am

The Guild of Writers community is small. There aren't a lot of people and most of them are busy with real life or with their own project and don't post often. So it's normal for people to be quiet here.

Also, since "hacking" talk isn't allowed on the MOUL forums, I think very few Uru fans actually know about the GoW itself or what goes on here. Which means not a lot of people play Fan-Ages. A lot of people on Myst's Reddit don't even know MOULa is open ! And even then, people who come here usually have trouble understanding Drizzle, the different versions of Uru, etc. Which means there are very few builders. And among those, very few know how to use PyPRP. I coded some features for PyPRP, and yet still barely know how to use it. So it's normal to feel alone - Age building is very hard after all, and even our PyPRP experts know little about things like AlcScript.

Right now, there are three tools for creating Ages, and only a few builders. Which means they are split into three small groups of users (Korman, PyPRP and Max), with very few experts in each. The plan is to make Korman better so it can completely replace PyPRP, because PyPRP is too complex for both beginners and experts. Once there are Fan-Ages on MOULa, more people will be interested in Age building, and those new people will probably all pick up Korman and be able to help each other. AND they will help with making Journey Clothes work on Korman, along with finding new ways to build puzzles, etc.

Because of this, most of the developers and some builders at the GoW are focused on improving and testing Korman so that it gets better quickly. And the people from the Guild of Messengers are busy telling everyone to come try it out. Thanks to this, we will have more Age Builder experts in the future. As a result, PyPRP users might feel even more alone than normal. But like I said, I believe once we have Fan-Ages on MOULa, we will have more people on Korman and thus more people helping each other.

As an example, I almost never used Korman, didn't write any code for it, and yet I was able to help J'Kla setup a basic Node Tree for a clickable. On the other side, I coded stuff for PyPRP and barely know how to make clickables with it ! So with more users, Korman will really help us find more "tricks" to create new Ages. If I weren't busy with other things, I would probably make example Blender files to show how to use Node Trees to create simple puzzles :| But I only have time for one project, which is making Plasma Ages work on Unity (again in an attempt to provide a new way to create beautiful Fan-Ages).

Switching to Korman immediately isn't mandatory if you know PyPRP better. The only mandatory thing is to have fun ;) Keep building those great Ages ! They will make a good showcase of what can be done, which could entice people to start building stuff too. Hopefully in the end everyone will be happy to switch to Korman and it will be a win-win for everyone.

In the meantime, don't hesitate to ask for help on the forums. Very few people are comfortable with PyPRP, but we will help if we have time and a possible solution...
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Re: ELODEA and ALABASTER Update

Postby Jhon J. Jaguar » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:28 am

Well....for the truth, me too i have see not many keep the passion for create new ages. I know is a long and hard job, but at the end is a satisfation for the writer and for the player can find another world for continue our journey. Then Congratulations Dulcamara for your commitment and constancy in your job. Naturally, the same for all writers who keep alive their creative spirit and help for give new life to the adventure. I believe in our little world we have a special opportunity: can walk into the soul of the writers for to know their feelings and thoughts. My greetings and a great HUG for all you writers and players. Have fun :D
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Re: ELODEA and ALABASTER Update

Postby Sirius » Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:06 am

Back in the days, Age building was a completely new concept and lots of people were working on Fan-Ages. I wasn't around at the time, but it must have been fun seeing everyone so busy. I guess over time most people tired of the difficulty and lack of official new content.
But with Korman and the Intangible (and the fact that Cyan is a bit more lively since Obduction), I believe we might see more builders at some point in the future. At least I hope so.

I wonder how Uru would have fared if it allowed you to create your own Age directly from within the engine. Collect materials in Cyan's Ages and add them to your own Age, like improved Relto crafting but much better. Then explore other people's Ages, etc. This would be unlimited new content made by the fans, which could have kept Uru alive far longer.
But obviously it's a really complex feature and unlikely to be added to the engine.
Still, it's a concept I thought about a lot recently, and I would really love to see it in action.

Jhon J. Jaguar wrote:Well....for the truth, me too i have see not many keep the passion for create new ages. I know is a long and hard job, but at the end is a satisfation for the writer and for the player can find another world for continue our journey. Then Congratulations Dulcamara for your commitment and constancy in your job. Naturally, the same for all writers who keep alive their creative spirit and help for give new life to the adventure. I believe in our little world we have a special opportunity: can walk into the soul of the writers for to know their feelings and thoughts. My greetings and a great HUG for all you writers and players. Have fun :D

Well said !
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Re: ELODEA and ALABASTER Update

Postby Dulcamara » Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:20 am

Jhon J. Jaguar wrote:
Well....for the truth, me too i have see not many keep the passion for create new ages. I know is a long and hard job, but at the end is a satisfation for the writer and for the player can find another world for continue our journey. Then Congratulations Dulcamara for your commitment and constancy in your job. Naturally, the same for all writers who keep alive their creative spirit and help for give new life to the adventure. I believe in our little world we have a special opportunity: can walk into the soul of the writers for to know their feelings and thoughts. My greetings and a great HUG for all you writers and players. Have fun :D



Sirius wrote:
Well said !


Yes, you two are right. We have to stick together, then we will fulfill our dream.
Big hugs back, to all who believe in our dream and help to realize it.

Greetings
Dulcamara :)
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Re: ELODEA and ALABASTER Update

Postby Deledrius » Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:22 am

Sirius wrote:I wasn't around at the time, but it must have been fun seeing everyone so busy. I guess over time most people tired of the difficulty and lack of official new content.

For those not around then or don't recall, it didn't help that Cyan's attitudes toward the tools and Fan Ages was inconsistent and... less than encouraging (and that's very generous, IMNSHO). By the time things began to shift in this regard, around 2011, it was already "too late" in that a lot of skilled and knowledgeable fans had given up and left in anger, boredom, or frustration.

Those of us who still remain to make tools and Ages are small in number, and for various reasons many are used to working alone.

For me, the team of people here working on stuff is the only thing that's kept me here, even when I stepped back from being as active. I like working with the team on the engine, server, and tools. If I were trying to do it on my own I'd have likely given up many years ago.
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Re: ELODEA and ALABASTER Update

Postby Sirius » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:28 am

Deledrius wrote:For those not around then or don't recall, it didn't help that Cyan's attitudes toward the tools and Fan Ages was inconsistent and... less than encouraging (and that's very generous, IMNSHO). By the time things began to shift in this regard, around 2011, it was already "too late" in that a lot of skilled and knowledgeable fans had given up and left in anger, boredom, or frustration.

Really ? That's a pity. With Cyan's difficulties, letting fans create new content would have been the smart move. And now that they can't afford to work on Uru anymore, they have to rely on the community either way... even for the rerelease of the 25th anniversary games.
Although they were also running a business and maybe seeing hacking as a threat. Plus to be honest the Uru community has been able to generate drama on its own without Cyan's intervention, so they aren't entirely to blame :P
Bah, most of it was years ago anyway. At least they seem more open-minded now.

Deledrius wrote:For me, the team of people here working on stuff is the only thing that's kept me here, even when I stepped back from being as active. I like working with the team on the engine, server, and tools. If I were trying to do it on my own I'd have likely given up many years ago.

Yeah, I don't really play Uru anymore, nor do I have time to build Ages. But helping with fixing/creating stuff is fun.
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Re: ELODEA and ALABASTER Update

Postby Jhon J. Jaguar » Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:07 am

I don't believe in the impossible about our job. Yes, we have lost many developers and more of the job is long and hard. But at the end this is for us a conquest. Think this:
We have take courage and competence for to create new ages - We have take determination for to learn how to use the Plasma engine and for to solve problems of bugs and conflicts - We have take patience and intelligence for to create new puzzles and added a new life to this game - And today too there are many fans of URU, the prove are the 20.000 supporters of the 25th anniversary of MYST. This will said the game is not forgotten, and sure our job is not forgotten. Is possible many have change their view point, but the life of this game are only the members who not have lost their passion and constancy for to continue to build and live their jobs. Don't forgot this is the maxim satisfation. Certainly is sad know anyone have abandoned our world, but if we keep strong our spirit and believe in our job, then the result can be only a success, in all cases, for the players who live again in MOULa, who continue to follow the DI progress (i know it because i go in it sometime, and many ask to me about the new ages)
Then take courage and go streight on in your way. I cannot to spoke for others, but about me, i believe in all you ;)
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Re: ELODEA and ALABASTER Update

Postby Sirius » Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:19 am

Out of those 20.000 backers, not a lot play Uru. But it means there are a lot of people who might be interested in playing again if there is new content on MOULa :)

And most of the work we're doing is still a fun entertainment I believe.
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