Avatar Vitals and Crawling

[nathan2055]

Hmm. I don't think a health bar would add to URU. I do think perhaps having gear and being able to use your hands would be awesome.

I still believe that we should do a deep breath sound when the avatar runs for a while, and a few seconds after stopping running (catching your breath).

[Stucuk]

Hmm. I don't think a health bar would add to URU.

+1 . Wouldn't make the game more enjoyable. Having to eat in S.T.A.L.K.E.R just makes the game annoying as you have to wip out food every X minutes.

[J'Kla]

Withdrawn

[Sirius]

Eating to gain back your energy is not really Myst-like to my mind and was already used in a lot of other games. Health bar wouldn't be better, but that's just my opinion.

Compass: quite useful in some Ages, but some others like the Relto or Ahnonay Cathedral don't need it. I also prefer to use the KI' GPS (just extract the one from PotS if you don't like to open the KI each time).

I would hope it could be implemented in a way that it would only come into play on specific puzzles and would not even envision it as perminantly on screen posibly as some extension to the KI like the control pad in Jalak. In fact it could be invisible just be a factor that could allow an age writer to introduce a new element to puzzles.

This would be nice for Minkata and the compass. For the health: there might also be some Ages in which you can't run all the while, Gahreesen gear room for example (although this one works fine in it's current state).

If the avi gets to the point of total exhaustion, either he/she takes some food or drink out his backpack,(if it is that kind of level) and consumes it to replenish those energies or the avi gets so exhausted from exercise, but instead of dying, he/she could automatically portal back to Relto without the dying part.

I find it a bit annoying for gameplay.

3) Crawling would be very useful, because it would add the ability to create some really interesting puzzles with tunnel networks.

This should be easy to do with MultistageBehaviorMode. You just need the anim to do so .

To sum up, here is what I would like:
- When you fall from hight, the avatar does as in the Cleft: falls on his hands, roll and gets back up. It could influence health bar if there is one.
- After a long run, the avatar could at least take a long breath as Nathan said.
- Bring back the GPS in most Ages (some objects that looks like Maintainer's markers are in all Ages if you look carefully. On the pillar in Gahreesen, in the cave of Teledahn, in the pool in Tsogal... I think it would make sense to say these are used for coordinates). It might be a problem in Gahreesen and Ages in which the avatar is teleported.
- hands and kickables: I never shoot in a basket when I want to put it somewhere. Adding hands to the avatar wouldn't kill gameplay.
- being able to use the KI light once you went to Descent (I don't really like the torch. Kadish Tolesa's forest would soon burn, clumsy as I am). Once you have it, you can switch it on/off without the 60 sec time limit BUT it uses some kind of energy bar too.

[Stucuk]

For me this whole strength bar feeling grows out of the awareness of what it was like to be in Cavern during that period and how we built timed events and there was the D'niOlympics where we had play built around some unlikely avatar sporting events.

How would a fitness bar help in any way, shape or form? All it will do is force people to take the jumps slower.

I actually agree that stopping to eat on a time based or even activity based (a'la S.T.A.L.K.E.R.) could detract from game play, and I see this whole strength/heath/fitness bar issue as a way of adding a little more detail to the puzzle side. In a way not to impose on total game play but only to be used in relation to specific puzzles

How does it add anything to the puzzle side. You are not working out anything. All that happens is that you are forced to stop moving your character between jumps. That isn't going to make puzzles more fun its going to do the opposite as your forcing people to play to a single playstyle because other ways of completing it are penalised.

Deus Ex shows that a game with the illusion of being limitless appeals far more than a game with obvious limits in place. With Deus Ex you could complete the levels in multiple ways, and in multiple play styles(Stealth, Aggression, etc) and you were not penalised for playing the game in your own style rather than whatever style the developers like.

Too much Realism detracts from Gameplay, because it limits the gameplay or adds unnecessary tasks(i.e Eating).

I would hope it could be implemented in a way that it would only come into play on specific puzzles and would not even envision it as perminantly on screen posibly as some extension to the KI like the control pad in Jalak. In fact it could be invisible just be a factor that could allow an age writer to introduce a new element to puzzles.

That would be bad imo. The basic game mechanics should be the same for every age. You would get people giving up on ages because they don't act like regular ages, and they wouldn't know why there character cant make these jumps when they could easily make them in Cyans ages.

Eating to gain back your energy is not really Myst-like to my mind and was already used in a lot of other games. Health bar wouldn't be better, but that's just my opinion.

+1. Myst Games to me has always been about exploration and puzzles, not eating to replenish stats(Or well any kind of stats). I like how Myst Games don't include things which detract from the main purpose of the game, you can just explore and solve puzzles without having to jump through hoops(Now someone is proberly going to post an image of an Age they have made where the player has to literally jump through hoops).

[J'Kla]

Withdrawn

[Stucuk]

Stucuk: Do you realise I am writing these inputs as an age writer.

Being an age writer doesn't mean you are above other people or that other peoples views are meaningless. I do have experience with predicting what different things people would do.

And you still have not grasped the speed of the actual jump is not what I am refering to it is the state of the avatar/player health when they come to take the jump

Well what other thing does it reference. Nothing else effects jumps. Note that Health is a completely wrong word as Health means how much life a player has before they die.

I know I would play the game BOTH ways.

And? Just because you would does not mean the majority would. When you predict what people will do you can't take your own views as the views of others, you have to work out what the majority of people are likely to do based on experience with what the majority has done in the past with other things.

on those occasions a choice between waiting just before a jump to alow a strength bar to build may mean the difference between a sucessful jump and a panic relto. I am seeing ages with these sort of options

If you mean that if people do jumps too often in a short period of time that they are forced back to Relto then that is a very bad idea. That doesn't make the game more fun it just makes it more annoying. People are not going to risk wasting there time by being forced back to there Relto, so people are going to be forced to wait until there stamina is back up before they continue.

People will learn how low the stamina bar can go before they get forced back to Relto. People will adapt to that and pause when there stamina is too low. If you do it without a stamina bar then people would just be annoyed when they are randomly relto'd back for no good reason.

It also makes absolutely no sense, why would an explorer Relto back instead of just waiting to catch there breath?

I am writing ages and you don't know how I may or may not implement puzzles your criticism seems to be based on current game play not potential future game play there are over 100 fan ages out there with a lot of posibilities the way I am developing ages and puzzels is based on the environment I have available and if the developers were able to give me more options I could write better/more puzzling ages.

What has forcing people to go back to there Relto if they try and do jumps too quickly got to do with puzzles.... (The answer is Nothing). Puzzles are not improved by adding in ways for people to fail them.

How you implement jumps does not matter. A jump is the same basic mechanic each time. There is a gap, you jump it. It doesn't matter how many jumps there are or how large the gaps are. The gameplay is the same.

Where do you get this forcing players "to wait between jumps" your so called "Normal" player would just adapt their skill set but some players are not and I am trying to allow those players to participate.

I get it from Common Sense and Logic. People in general will take the route which is the least annoying if they have an option. If you penalise one route then people are far less likely to take it. I doubt there would be many people who would enjoy having the increased opertunity of going back to Relto.

Deus Ex may have the beautiful look and feel you desire but where does "Stealth and Aggression" come into Uru.

What i said was obvious. I never commented on Deus Ex's look or feel so i don't see why you mention that. What i said was that Deus Ex was designed to be as limitless as possible and it was successful because of that fact.

Deus Ex shows that a game with the illusion of being limitless appeals far more than a game with obvious limits in place. With Deus Ex you could complete the levels in multiple ways, and in multiple play styles(Stealth, Aggression, etc) and you were not penalised for playing the game in your own style rather than whatever style the developers like.

[nathan2055]

Eating to gain back your energy is not really Myst-like to my mind and was already used in a lot of other games. Health bar wouldn't be better, but that's just my opinion.

Compass: quite useful in some Ages, but some others like the Relto or Ahnonay Cathedral don't need it. I also prefer to use the KI' GPS (just extract the one from PotS if you don't like to open the KI each time).

I would hope it could be implemented in a way that it would only come into play on specific puzzles and would not even envision it as perminantly on screen posibly as some extension to the KI like the control pad in Jalak. In fact it could be invisible just be a factor that could allow an age writer to introduce a new element to puzzles.

This would be nice for Minkata and the compass. For the health: there might also be some Ages in which you can't run all the while, Gahreesen gear room for example (although this one works fine in it's current state).

If the avi gets to the point of total exhaustion, either he/she takes some food or drink out his backpack,(if it is that kind of level) and consumes it to replenish those energies or the avi gets so exhausted from exercise, but instead of dying, he/she could automatically portal back to Relto without the dying part.

I find it a bit annoying for gameplay.

3) Crawling would be very useful, because it would add the ability to create some really interesting puzzles with tunnel networks.

This should be easy to do with MultistageBehaviorMode. You just need the anim to do so .

To sum up, here is what I would like:
- When you fall from hight, the avatar does as in the Cleft: falls on his hands, roll and gets back up. It could influence health bar if there is one.
- After a long run, the avatar could at least take a long breath as Nathan said.
- Bring back the GPS in most Ages (some objects that looks like Maintainer's markers are in all Ages if you look carefully. On the pillar in Gahreesen, in the cave of Teledahn, in the pool in Tsogal... I think it would make sense to say these are used for coordinates). It might be a problem in Gahreesen and Ages in which the avatar is teleported.
- hands and kickables: I never shoot in a basket when I want to put it somewhere. Adding hands to the avatar wouldn't kill gameplay.
- being able to use the KI light once you went to Descent (I don't really like the torch. Kadish Tolesa's forest would soon burn, clumsy as I am). Once you have it, you can switch it on/off without the 60 sec time limit BUT it uses some kind of energy bar too.

I agree with all of that. No health bar, I would like hands on the avatar, I like the KI light idea with an energy bar, having a better KI GPS with perhaps a map would be cool, and I like doing the Cleft animation when falling from a long height (I believe this was managed when falling through the big pipe in Rel-too).

I'm working on a wiki page over at the OpenUru wiki talking about concepts, the link is http://wiki.openuru.org/index.php?title=Nathan2055%27s_Approach_to_Uru.

[Tsar Hoikas]

*Mod Hat*

If I see any further self-redacted posts in this thread, then the edit post feature will be completely disabled for all users. This is not the MOUL forum--we do not allow for history to be rewritten in such a blatant and disrespectful manner.

[nathan2055]

*Mod Hat*

If I see any further self-redacted posts in this thread, then the edit post feature will be completely disabled for all users. This is not the MOUL forum--we do not allow for history to be rewritten in such a blatant and disrespectful manner.

Wha? J'kla, why did you delete all of your posts?