But I think that in some way or another I need to write some type of reply, and since nobody reads Alcugs anymore, I suppose that this is the best place to write it.
Hoikas wrote:Also, Almlys envisions something a bit different from what we want to do with PyPRP. I really like the idea, but it introduces a level of complexity I think is not good for your every-day age creator. Detail: He wants a world creation framework to write content for both his 7d7 engine and Uru. Many developers aren't interested in writing code for 7d7, which was one of the decisive issues...
Trylon's rewrite offered a chance for us to keep PyPRP as it is, and we're taking that.
How many times, I need to say and repeat, and repeat, and repeat, that PyPRP and 7d7 and OpenPRP are completely different projects and they are not related. Them do not have nothing to do. I was working on other projects when I started with PyPRP and that was not a valid excuse. In fact I started working in PyPRP alone, some developers started to contribute, then they decided to kill the original author, and now I'm again alone working on PyPRP, well that's fine, I think that it's better, we are now competing for a better version of PyPRP.
As I repeat, and repeat, my envisions are not different. So, I repeat "Many developers aren't interested in writing code for 7d7, which was one of the decisive issues..." this is not a valid excuse, 7d7 is hosted on another repository, and write access to it is restricted mainly because 7d7 is my own solo project, as several other ones that I'm working on.
Aloys wrote:In many ways PyPRP is his baby, eventhough he hasn't contributed anything in over a year (and with the two refactoring there might just be nothing left from his own code)..
I'm an human being, as any other humans we sometimes have problems. I think that explaining now what happened to me over that year, and why I have been so inactive is a bit pointless and very boring. It's just something that happened and that's all, now I'm active at 200% again.
Aloys wrote:Just a question: was Almlys contacted about this whole forking idea before it happened?
No, it's more easy to shot in the back like the cowards than just send some mails/PM/IM or a meeting in IRC to discuss why do you guys hate me too much.
Bad wrote:Guys, I think we need to start discussing things more before making decisions like this. Plus we need to get feelers from the people directly involved.
You already know how the world works. These things happen. Real life is plenty full of really bad situations that make this whole fork idea a really small stupidity.
Aloys wrote:Surprisingly he doesn't seem too angry about all this right now, but he doesn't seem too happy either..
I have more serious problems on my hands to be worried or angry about a fork. It hurts, yes, but is how the world works.
Aloys wrote:He says he will get involved again in PyPRP in the future, but it indeed appears the direction he wants to take is very different that the current Uru focused work. But would his work be valuable or just an hindrance? If indeed the way he wants to go is just too different, then there's no turning back.
We may discuss this again when PyPRP RC1 gets released. As I repeat It has nothing to do with 7d7 and any other projects.
Aloys wrote:Beside, anyone know just how much of his original code is left in the current incarnation of PyPRP? If there's quite a bit of it he has a right to be displeased... If there's nothing (or not much) left then the situation is different. Then, just out of diplomacy, couldn't we change the name to something different? No more Almlys code, different name, then it's a totally different thing and he has no reason to be unhappy (less reasons at least)..
Unfortunately someone decided that it would be very funny to break subversion in a way that "blame" does not work, so using "blame" to determine how many code is from an specific contributor it's a bit pointless. There may be other ways, but them are more time consuming than a simple "svn blame". And there is still a lot of the original code, or a mutation of it.
About changing the name, I request that at least please, ensure that you add GoW on all places, because there are several pages in the GoW wiki that only talks about the plain PyPRP and I think that it's a bit confusing for users. Because PyPRP 1.0 it's going to be completely different from Gow PyPRP 1.0.
Paradox wrote:Firstly, people have always wanted everything to be centralized as Adam mentioned. Since GoW was first opened, there have always been requests that the tutorials on Alcugs be moved over. The legal agreements at Alcugs made it more difficult than a simple copy & paste, and many of the tutorials were in need of rewrites anyways.
You wanted to copy and paste the entire Alcugs wiki, and let it die. Try to copy and paste Wikipedia without linking back to them, you may die. I was only asking links back to the original place were the original stuff is maintained and will continue.
Paradox wrote:Trylon was rewriting the plugin to add a lot of new features and changing most, if not all, of the existing code in some areas. When trying to commit there were often errors with the SVN at Alcugs that made development difficult when versions could not be synchronized.
Subversion at Alcugs works fine, so that it's also not a valid excuse. Just because the server was not using the swap partition and at some random times was running out of memory, it is not a reason to go away. Yes It was a mistake for my side, I don't know what happened, due to that subversion was not working well. I think that the price for my mistake is too high.
Paradox wrote:Without sounding harsh towards Almlys, it has to be said that he hasn't been involved with PyPRP in the recent past, and that his focus has been heavily directed towards 7D7 and schoolwork. At times, it was uncertain if the site was even being maintained.
See my response to Aloys comment about my lack of involvement. And unfortunately it does not have nothing to do with schoolwork or 7d7, it's more complicated and it's not suitable to discuss my private life and personal issues on this forum.
About maintaining the site, I don't know if you just are concerned about the resources (economical) and (human) required to maintain a site like the Alcugs project. I have been always doing an effort to maintain all the software up to date to the latest version (I'm subscribed to the announce lists), and in fact since I set up Xen on my system Alcugs was moved to it's own dedicated virtual machine.
Paradox wrote:The decision to fork was made around the time that rumours of 3DS Max tools started to surface. We thought it would be best to set up a wiki here, with tutorials for multiple tools and multiple programs, rather than rely on the existing, but fragmented, documentation spread across the Intenet. We also wanted to make sure that PyPRP was always available to Age Builders and future developers and that it could be updated to include support for other versions of the Plasma engine once we hear any news from Cyan.
3DS Max tools, where? Ha, Ha, Ha, the first reason on why I started working on PyPRP, is because some individual started to do a lot of noise about some 3DS Max Tools that as far as I know has not been released yet.
Paradox wrote:To Almlys: As much as it may seem otherwise, it was not our intent to cause you more trouble. You haven't admittedly been clear with your intentions for PyPRP with regards to 7D7; and the OpenPRP project I have heard nothing about. As for Uru on Linux, MOUL works under both wine (0.9.52) and Cedega. I have run PotS successfully in the past, but encounter problems when I try to now.
Just thing that 7d7 and OpenPRP do not exist, and that I'm working only on PyPRP. Makes things clear now? MOUL sucks under wine/cedega and I prefer to work on PyPRP than losing my time on attempting to run PotS again on Linux.
- OpenPRP Show Spoiler
Bad wrote:So Branching out makes sense then. We can centralize our development here, and link it to Alcugs forums right? Since we basically have to rewrite everything, it will become the GOW's.
We just have to keep Almlys in the loop. As he is a member here now, that will be easier. I asked him to explain what he is up to with his projects, so we can discuss this again after he informs us about that.
As far as I know, and how I have seen on this other topic you are going to other way. Yes, some links back to the official Alcugs forums/wiki may be appreciated, but it's not happening and it's not gonna happen.
As for keeping Almlys in the loop, as far as I searched I don't see traces of a repository anywhere, and if there is one as far as I know I don't have read access to it, something that would be very apreciated in order to keep the official PyPRP subversion repository in sync with the fork.