New Post by Chogon

[Karkadann]

Oh good grief...They did say discussion is good some where, although the problem or the resolution (what ever is more applicable) starts when you act on it

[Chacal]

There you have it. Cyan does NOT want us to convert/put Magiquest ages into Uru.

Jamey, we all knew that already. It was self-evident.
You may just have created a lot of problems for everyone, Cyan included.

[Karkadann]

How So?

[Paradox]

You seem to fail to understand that hacks must be treated equally by Cyan. If they are forced to take action against Drizzle, then we lose ULM, UAM, PyPRP, Flymode, Offline KI, and all of the fan Ages.

Cyan's policy has been to ignore hacks, occasionally coming out enough to say "We didn't authorize any of this". They take a policy of not knowing, so that they are not forced to deal with it.

You are potentially gambling the entire work of developers over the past 5 years and this entire Guild on "Cyan's approval". Thanks for that.

[Jamey]

You seem to fail to understand that hacks must be treated equally by Cyan. If they are forced to take action against Drizzle, then we lose ULM, UAM, PyPRP, Flymode, Offline KI, and all of the fan Ages.

Cyan's policy has been to ignore hacks, occasionally coming out enough to say "We didn't authorize any of this". They take a policy of not knowing, so that they are not forced to deal with it.

You are potentially gambling the entire work of developers over the past 5 years and this entire Guild on "Cyan's approval". Thanks for that.

...What? I would never do anything to put this guild in danger. I'm in it just like most of you here.

I don't see at all how we would lose these at all immediately Paradox. In the E-Mail, Cyan only gave their disapproval on converting Magiquest ages, and that was all. Which at most, would use only a very small part of Drizzle. (If Dustin indeed decided to release tools with it to convert the ages, which has not been done yet). If Dustin does NOT give it support for Magiquest, NONE of this will happen, Cyan would not have to take action, especially considering Drizzle itself is legal.

Besides, think about it. Would Cyan really just wipe out everything we've ever made, even after they (Rand himself) said they approve of user created content? Most of these tools work towards just that. (Drizzle, Offline KI, PyPRP, Flymode, ULM, UAM, and the fan ages themselves)

Again I say, Cyan only said they don't want us to convert Magiquest worlds to Uru, that was all. It's up to us to make sure we don't cross the line with them on this so they have to take action against us.

I think I'm done with the topic. I hope I have not offended or upset anyone here, for it was never my intention.

Peace, and the best of luck to you all.

[Whilyam]

I agree with Paradox. Calling attention to (and, essentially, painting a target on) this site is extremely irresponsible. Particularly when it is to acquire information we already know.

A lot of this anger could be dealt with if Dustin would comment on whether he will or will not be developing conversion for MQ into Drizzle. While I haven't scanned all of this discussion, I haven't seen him or anyone else seriously involved in Drizzle's production comment if he would (just that the financial impact might not be as some have suggested). Most of the anger here has grown out of arrogant comments on both sides. While it is inappropriate to come here and, as BAD said "preach to the people who have founded this site, what this site is about," I think it is just as wrong to block that out (which has not happened, just strong opposition to that perception as you would expect).

As another consideration in whether or not MQ should be converted is the fact that it will most likely be broken post-conversion. Take Myst V for example. The Uru-converted files are hopelessly broken even for Uru. Few buttons work, whole sections of ages are only accessible via fly-mode, etc. Now, would having the Drizzle-converted files be acceptable enough to stop me from buying Myst V? Absolutely not. It lacks story, most interactivity, and many sounds. They are stand-ins for Myst V's Ages. Useful when I want to see how Cyan modeled Todelmer's light-sticks, or the patterns of the Noloben birds. Even for those who dislike or do not care about the story, the Ages are still not up to compare with those in the actual game. Now, MQ's might be different, and this certainly isn't an endorsement of conversion. Just my take on a consideration in this debate. Of course, if someone's going to go to a broken, hacked copy of a game you (might) are able to get for $10, it's highly unlikely you were going to get the money anyhow.

In the end, I think it's time both sides took a step back. This discussion has overshadowed a fairly harmless message from Chogon. First, to reference:

The statement is simply that we have not given any such official permission or approval or sanctioning.
Cyan Worlds will in the near future reveal it's future plans and intensions. Hopefully, with a town hall kind of meeting, questions can be answered and a way forward charted.
I know that there has been a lot of confusion for the last year and a half. Not only in the community but also inside of Cyan Worlds. There are *so* many things we want to do from getting everyone back in the cavern to new fresh ideas. We have had to re-adjust our thinking but the dreams are still alive.

To those who claim Cyan has given up or thumbed their nose at the amazing work done here, note the phrasing of this message. Cyan HAS NOT given permission, not WILL NOT. No doubt this is in response to the Pelishard nonsense.
And what of this town hall to answer questions? The last time such a thing was proposed, it was done in D'mala for the resurrection of Live. Perhaps a similar situation is coming? But for MQ or a new Live or a new UU?
Your energies are better directed in the development and enjoyment, not in anger and division. Now is when we need to work through differences, not call each other names, nor question morals. This sentiment is not for Cyan or for hacking, it is for Uru that we step back from yet another pit of in-fighting. For this game, this community, your sanity, this must end-- and end it will. How it does so is up to you.

[JWPlatt]

Your energies are better directed in the development and enjoyment, not in anger and division. ... How it [ends] is up to you.

You sound like Klaatu. That's not a snark. I watch the entire movie just to hear his speech at the end of it. It's a great speech.

[Karkadann]

Hacks on a game that is about six years old and hacks on a game that is brand new, I kinda understand why they make a distinction between the two. What was the original goal they had for Uru and how did it involve the fans. If they did not want Uru do be hacked in the way it was I think they would have taken action to prevent it. They did not, However instead of Cyan developing the tools to open up Uru to the fans, they let the fans create Drizzle, Offline KI, PyPRP, Flymode, ULM, UAM which freed Cyan up to peruse other projects, more or less. It would seem they have given the fans more freedom with Uru then I realized, and now we want more?

Will they be as lenient with the hacking of the Magiquest ages as they where with the hacking of the Uru ages, and what actions could they take to prevent it if not.

Do we have the right to freely hack anything Cyan produces? whether we have the right or not some will try. I cant understand why Cyan has been so nice about the hacking of their product, although I very much enjoy what you guys have done with it, but you havta wonder how much more are they gonna tolerate should we push them farther and hack everything they come out with ignoring the possible consequences or should we consider the possible outcome of our actions before hand

The more energy put into converting the Magiquest ages the less effort is put into Uru itself. its easier to improve on something that already exist then to create something new. The talent I have seen is more Creation then improvement, your on a role why stop now, I cant see how Magiquest would fit into the Uru story any how, between that and an updated game engine that would prevent conversion on some level

[greendragoon]

I really liked you post, Whilyam. I fear that when all is said and done, more damage will have been done from the conteversy that has ensued than anything we're afraid might happen.

[Paradox]

The sad part is that this whole discussion wouldn't be happening if Cyan had made a clear post in the first place. Their initial post was needlessly vague, suggesting that they actively discouraged Drizzle.

The second post clears everything up quite nicely, but is ignored in the chaos of trying to persecute anything that might be "hacking".

All that Cyan is saying is that they do not authorize Drizzle and the shards, not that they are bad, just that Cyan is not involved and has not given permission to them. They are not saying "Stay away!", they are saying "We did not authorize these. We will not be held responsible for anything that happens".

And the overreaction by the self-righteous members of the community who believe everything Cyan says to be the word of God lead us to this place... such a delightful and useful place to be.

Can someone remind me again why I bother with this community at all?