Legal question...

[D'raekmus]

Hello, I'm sorry for sounding new, and everything, but I have one question regarding Plasma/CWE.

Recently, one of my favorite MMO games has been announced for shut-down. It got me to thinking about some of its features, and what I liked/disliked about the game.

Anyway, I decided to try bringing together a small team to perform some... extensive modifications to the open Plasma Engine, since it's a very high-quality graphics renderer, despite being a decade old.

My question is this: Would it be ok, under the GPL, for me to perform these extensive modifications (adding in a combat system, simply as a Proof of Concept, and to see if Plasma can handle it, for example), provided I supply the source code for these additions?

I decided on Plasma because of how I am able to get a high-quality performance under load, even on older machines (old laptop with Athlon 64 processor, and ATI Radeon Xpress is able to easily handle it on lower settings), and I see the potential this engine could have against mainstream, subscription MMOs out there, with just a little loving work, that is.

Would it be alright if I used the GOW's branch as my base? I understand that some of you may resent the idea of bringing combat to a Myst game, but I just want to say that, no, I'm not making a Myst game. I'm developing a completely different world with it.

[GPNMilano]

Hello, I'm sorry for sounding new, and everything, but I have one question regarding Plasma/CWE.

Recently, one of my favorite MMO games has been announced for shut-down. It got me to thinking about some of its features, and what I liked/disliked about the game.

Anyway, I decided to try bringing together a small team to perform some... extensive modifications to the open Plasma Engine, since it's a very high-quality graphics renderer, despite being a decade old.

My question is this: Would it be ok, under the GPL, for me to perform these extensive modifications (adding in a combat system, simply as a Proof of Concept, and to see if Plasma can handle it, for example), provided I supply the source code for these additions?

I decided on Plasma because of how I am able to get a high-quality performance under load, even on older machines (old laptop with Athlon 64 processor, and ATI Radeon Xpress is able to easily handle it on lower settings), and I see the potential this engine could have against mainstream, subscription MMOs out there, with just a little loving work, that is.

Would it be alright if I used the GOW's branch as my base? I understand that some of you may resent the idea of bringing combat to a Myst game, but I just want to say that, no, I'm not making a Myst game. I'm developing a completely different world with it.

Yes it is ok. Provided you make the source code for your modifications openly asscessible to all, and you attach the GPL license to that source, you can make any modifications you wish to make to it. I don't see why anyone at the GoW's would have a problem if you made a fork of their branch for your own work on your engine. Just be sure that you adhere to the open source license attached to Plasma (in this case GPL). Also any additional features, outside of your own code that you may need to use, must also be GPL or the license for it compatible with GPL.

Happy coding!

[D'raekmus]

Thank you for your prompt response, GPNMilano.

I suppose that the content doesn't have to be licensed under the GPL, though, being separate from the game engine?

I just want to know I have the right idea about the GPL before I start searching for coders/modelers, and so on to help in my project. That way, we don't wind up having problems later down the road where we realize that we can't continue because of a copyright/legal issue.

[GPNMilano]

Thank you for your prompt response, GPNMilano.

I suppose that the content doesn't have to be licensed under the GPL, though, being separate from the game engine?

I just want to know I have the right idea about the GPL before I start searching for coders/modelers, and so on to help in my project. That way, we don't wind up having problems later down the road where we realize that we can't continue because of a copyright/legal issue.

Since Cyan's data files (the Prps) were not licensed under the GPL, I'm assuming that you are correct that the content does not have to be licensed under GPL. (I wouldn't quote me on this, but given that Cyan's is not, I would venture a guess that yours would not have to be either). You will of course have to make your own content to replace Cyan's, as Cyan's is not open sourced. So some of your modifications of the engine will have to eliminate the ties to cyan's content, and replace it with your own where needed. This is for stuff like Custom Avatars, and certain age names like Personal etc.

So: To use the engine for your project you'll need to replace the avatars, relto, and the loading screens, and all the .py files that go with those, or edit the .py files so that they work with new ones you make. Basically to use the engine in any viable way you'll need to make brand new content for it. However, assuming that at some point Cyan makes the avatar and KI files available under some license (which will probably be different then GPL). You'll have at least something to start with. Otherwise you're going to have to make your own in the meantime.

[D'raekmus]

Thank you for your prompt response, GPNMilano.

I suppose that the content doesn't have to be licensed under the GPL, though, being separate from the game engine?

I just want to know I have the right idea about the GPL before I start searching for coders/modelers, and so on to help in my project. That way, we don't wind up having problems later down the road where we realize that we can't continue because of a copyright/legal issue.

Since Cyan's data files (the Prps) were not licensed under the GPL, I'm assuming that you are correct that the content does not have to be licensed under GPL. (I wouldn't quote me on this, but given that Cyan's is not, I would venture a guess that yours would not have to be either). You will of course have to make your own content to replace Cyan's, as Cyan's is not open sourced. So some of your modifications of the engine will have to eliminate the ties to cyan's content, and replace it with your own where needed. This is for stuff like Custom Avatars, and certain age names like Personal etc.

So: To use the engine for your project you'll need to replace the avatars, relto, and the loading screens, and all the .py files that go with those, or edit the .py files so that they work with new ones you make. Basically to use the engine in any viable way you'll need to make brand new content for it. However, assuming that at some point Cyan makes the avatar and KI files available under some license (which will probably be different then GPL). You'll have at least something to start with. Otherwise you're going to have to make your own in the meantime.

Alright, I heard mention of some using the avatar skeleton. Would it be possible to still use that, or will I need to rig my own?
And KI files, as in the GUI interface only or is it the entire backend (including the messaging system).
As for the relto, I hope to eventually alter it to be more like a standard MMO (you start where you logged off), so, while code for the Relto link may still exist, I would prefer to alter it to where I can simply have it create an avatar at the last known location (coordinates and map/Age.prp are stored as a note for relogin)

For loading screens, my hope is to eventually use a series of cutscenes to keep an in-game feel about it. (I.E. when you wander off a set map into a new area, you are instead shown in a transition stage, much like you see in The Legend of Zelda).

But, those are my hopes. I don't know how feasible it is, given I have little knowledge about programming in general (enough to understand the logic and references, but not enough to make/add my own content )

[GPNMilano]

Alright, I heard mention of some using the avatar skeleton. Would it be possible to still use that, or will I need to rig my own?
And KI files, as in the GUI interface only or is it the entire backend (including the messaging system).

The avatar skeleton and KI files unfortunately don't have a license at the moment, even though they are available on the Myst Online Forums via a download link. However since they don't have a license it's kind of up in the air I believe as what you can legally use them for IMO. However the KI itself is just a GUI and is controlled by python. The messaging system is controlled by the engine and the server. The python scripts just tell the engine and servers the type of message it's sending. It's the engine and server's job to interpret those messages.

For loading screens, my hope is to eventually use a series of cutscenes to keep an in-game feel about it. (I.E. when you wander off a set map into a new area, you are instead shown in a transition stage, much like you see in The Legend of Zelda).

The loading screens are built into the engine. So you should be able to make up your own.

But, those are my hopes. I don't know how feasible it is, given I have little knowledge about programming in general (enough to understand the logic and references, but not enough to make/add my own content )

Well with the right team you should be able to come up with something useful. I would suggest stopping by the Guild of Writer's IRC channel. That's where those most familiar with Plasma hang out and discuss programming not just for plasma but for other projects too. They'll be able to answer any technical questions you might have regarding Plasma and how the data files, engine and server work together.

[D'raekmus]

Thanks, GPN. As soon as I install one, I'll join the GoW IRC channel.

Thank you for answering my questions. Hopefully, I can get a small team to help contribute a little bit towards extending CWE's capabilities.

I understand that we already have NPC support (somewhat), through OHBot, so that could be really helpful (if used with permission, of course). Adding a combat system would further increase the possibilities CWE has to offer (thinking of as an additional library compiled into the C++ backend), but I also hope to try to leave as much of the code alone as possible, to ease integration of newer versions and bug fixes that the GoW's branch obtains.

At least, that's my hope, anyway.

[kaelisebonrai]

This post by Paradox on the MO:UL forums might be very relevant to your question: http://mystonline.com/forums/viewtopic. ... 864#373864

In short: You cannot, at present, legally distribute compiled binaries of the current source code. There are large, nasty licensing issues at this point, that Cyan is choosing to ignore.