Content licensing

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Content licensing

Postby Gahlen » Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:46 pm

Can we have some comment on this? Is this an answer we can be happy with, or does it bode ill for the future of things? Should one have objections to this register business?

Mac wrote:(06/02 14:53:05) Mac: As some of you will know, at the end of March, OpenUru submitted a request on behalf of the community as a whole to Cyan regarding licensing of "content"
(06/02 14:53:32) Mac: Well, we did eventually get a response.
(06/02 14:53:44) Mac: And it a generally positive one.
(06/02 14:54:38) Mac: At this time, I have to say it was a very brief reply, so there's not too much detail that I can pass on. That's why I said this might be a bit of nothing ;)
(06/02 14:55:36) Mac: What I can tell you is that Cyan likes the idea. They want to allow the community to be able to use the assets to help develop MOUL/CWE
(06/02 14:56:23) Mac: But there are a few considerations that they need to apply. So thing will take some time to work out.
(06/02 14:57:06) Mac: Firstly, they want to ensure that these game assets are used for MOUL and not, for example, ported to other game engines.
(06/02 14:58:08) Mac: Secondly, they want to make it clear that in releasing these assets to the community, that they're not "abandoning" them or placing them in the public domain.
(06/02 14:59:21) Mac: The assets remain "Cyan's property" in effect, although people will be able to adapt and modify, and have ownership of their own resultant work
(06/02 15:01:45) Mac: So, what they seem to be talking about is a "controlled license": RWe don't know if they are goiung to put all assets under this license
(06/02 15:02:32) Mac: The note only refers to "certain assets". I don't know what that means at this time.
(06/02 15:03:16) Mac: The inference is that they may be choosing certain items to begin with and see how it goes.
(06/02 15:03:56) J'Kla: Previously the assets Cyan were most protective of were Textures
(06/02 15:03:57) Mac: There is maybe one other thing that was mentioned, and possibly quite important:
(06/02 15:05:47) Mac: What has been mentioned is that Cyan would like all licensees to be on a register.
(06/02 15:06:07) Alabanda was expecting something like that.
(06/02 15:06:07) Mac: Why? is the obvious question.
(06/02 15:06:50) Alabanda: Presumably to make tracking license violations easier.
(06/02 15:06:55) Mac: It goes back to the earlier point about not having abandoned ownership. It'sa a way of showing that Cyan still controls the assets.
(06/02 15:07:25) GoMeLeonardo: this seems very similar to the FCA Licence then
(06/02 15:07:54) Mac: That's really as much as there is to say. There is obviously still a lot of work for Cyan to work out the detail of what they really need from the license
(06/02 15:08:20) Mac: Yes, Leo, I thought it sounded not far from the FCAL too.
(06/02 15:08:54) Mac: So, in summary, a small step in the right direction.
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Re: Content licensing

Postby diafero » Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:09 am

Have there been any mentions of a distribution license? That'd be needed for all files if fans should ever be able to provide a proper Shard with its own dataserver. Any by admitting only unmodified redistribution of files which they are providing for free already anyway, they hardly give anything away.
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Re: Content licensing

Postby janaba » Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:38 am

Thank you, Gahlen ... It was a great idea to post this condensed version of the announcement here ... :D
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Re: Content licensing

Postby Tsar Hoikas » Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:00 am

The "register" part sound dubious. The whole point of a license is to say that Cyan is allowing us to use their content, meaning, they own it, and we're borrowing it. Also, it is somewhat disconcerting to me that our call for open communication is being met with the same closed door approach that made the open source release blow up in Cyan's and OU's faces.

EDIT: My last point might be incorrect with the posting of this.
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Re: Content licensing

Postby Deledrius » Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:04 pm

Again I get the distinct feeling that Cyan really doesn't truly understand (on a deep level, obviously they're not stupid) the notion of community involvement and the power of open source. By putting what would appear to be a procedure-heavy system in place you effectively wall off a large amount of potential smaller contributions, and instead encourage entrenched cliques and cronyism and a continuation of the constant decay we've witnessed over the past near-decade in Uru.

I very deeply understand their desire to maintain some semblance of control over their material, but it's quite honestly misguided. Like security and convenience, it's impossible to keep a tight stranglehold on the assets while expecting a thriving community of contributions. Every limitation is another slew of fixes that will never happen, and this needs to weigh in the balance. At some point, one should ask themselves if they're truly committed to letting Uru grow, or just holding on to that past-that-will-never-be. You can't have both. Believe me, I've tried. :(

At several times in the past Cyan (via Rand) has said there is nothing left they wish to hold on to and want the community to take stewardship, and yet at every turn their actions have proven those promises to be hollow. If Cyan is willing and able to continue to explore the future of Uru with us then by all means I'd love to see them do so; meanwhile at every public appearance they say they have moved on and do not have the funds to participate in more than a cursory role. If Cyan were to say "we're packing up and taking Uru with us, so long!" they'd be within their rights to do so, and at least it would be honest. This back-and-forth we've received instead is infuriating.
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Re: Content licensing

Postby Luna » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:21 pm

I don't think Rand speaks for Cyan when he says he wants to release everything to the community etc. I think Rand speaks for himself, about what he would like to see. Shamefully enough this doesn't seem to be the same things as Cyan.
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Re: Content licensing

Postby Deledrius » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:48 pm

I agree with your assessment of the situation; it fits my observations as well.
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Re: Content licensing

Postby Deledrius » Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:04 am

On this topic:

I've had little motivation to work on helping with this in the wake of the recent MystMovie revelations.

Sadly, the account by Adrian filled in the blanks and answered some of those confused questions I had about Cyan's attitude toward Uru, the fans, and this whole endeavour. As I've been steadily losing interest and faith over the past several years, it's more of a last-straw sort of thing, combined with other things going on in my personal life that give me little tolerance for such... perceived lack of artistic integrity. As such, my personal interest in gaining permissions from Cyan for anything Uru-related is essentially gone. As far as I can tell these days, Uru is dead. Even Cyan seems to feel that way. In my eyes, the only productive way forward is entirely Cyan-independent new content using the existing engine, but there's so little active developer interest in either the engine itself or the tools that any progress in that area is so slow as to be effectively dead as well.

The attitude that Cyan wants to hold on to everything it can minus the bare minimum exceptions, while entirely their right, does nothing to encourage us doing all the work to achieve it. It seems that even if we succeed, we'll still be unable to do what we need to do. It's a puzzle with no solution and no winning for an often (and sometimes legitimately) ungrateful community and a stagnant game world elsewhere being sold out by its legal guardians.

As difficult as it is, I feel a certain relief when considering backing away from community involvement in Uru entirely (here, OU, etc.) and that's usually a good sign that doing it is probably correct. What meager talent and motivation I have feels better spent elsewhere on other projects still capable of feeling rewarding. Uru has long since stopped giving me any sense of satisfaction, which is pretty important for a hobby.


I won't disappear completely, and those who need to contact me know how to do so, but I need to step back and away from Uru indefinitely, probably permanently. If I've got something you need, let me know, but I don't intend to be active around here going forward. I'll be helping with my end of the Gehn 10 update as I've committed to that previously and don't want to leave anyone hanging, of course. I value the friends I've made here, and I will not be dropping all of that; fortunately those connections don't require Uru to be maintained.

For those of you still carrying along that torch for Uru: Good luck. I hope you continue to enjoy your commitment and efforts in the once-great D'ni city.
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Re: Content licensing

Postby Tweek » Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:53 am

I've long felt that way. Most of my Uru projects were scaled back if not out right closed down over the last year or 2.

I enjoy building, creating something. Just not really for that.

I've been working on a new project for a while called Vaal'lin. And whilst it involves Linking Technology it has no ties to D'ni at all, which allows me greater freedom to create a story I want to create. No clue what I'll release from it or if I will. At the moment I've been enjoying building up a wiki for it for all the lore.
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Re: Content licensing

Postby Deledrius » Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:04 am

Tweek wrote:I've long felt that way. Most of my Uru projects were scaled back if not out right closed down over the last year or 2.

I enjoy building, creating something. Just not really for that.

I've been working on a new project for a while called Vaal'lin. And whilst it involves Linking Technology it has no ties to D'ni at all, which allows me greater freedom to create a story I want to create. No clue what I'll release from it or if I will. At the moment I've been enjoying building up a wiki for it for all the lore.

I've enjoyed seeing the art you've posted for Vaal'lin. It looks like an exciting concept with similar aspects to the parts of D'ni I liked.

I've thought for a while that this is the direction things need to head, but the tools simply aren't up to it, and the target seems to always be moving making it hard to contribute. This is especially true for someone stuck halfway between coder and artist like myself.
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