I would like to build a 64-bit version of PyPRP

Announcements and discussion regarding any projects related to Cyan Worlds' Plasma Engine including (but not limited to) CyanWorlds.com Engine, Drizzle, OfflineKI, PyPRP, and libHSPlasma.

Re: I would like to build a 64-bit version of PyPRP

Postby Sirius » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:50 pm

About creating an Age editor: should you be supposed to make the models in it directly ? Because seeing how complex modelling tools are, this is not going to be easy to do. I get the shiver just by thinking about what evil mathematical function hides behind Blender's Boolean or Decimate modifiers.
What an Age editor could do at most, is load models from some file (CollaDA, for instance), let you edit the logic/animation, and then export to Uru (which would still be an incredible amount of work).

Keep in mind that PyPRP 1, while being only an export plug-in (and being a bit messy), was written by skilled coders, and took a few years to develop into its current state. If I were to work on some plugin, I would give a hand writing Korman, or fixing PyPRP 2.
User avatar
Sirius
 
Posts: 1506
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:46 am
Location: France

Re: I would like to build a 64-bit version of PyPRP

Postby Deledrius » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:26 pm

Sirius wrote:What an Age editor could do at most, is load models from some file (CollaDA, for instance), let you edit the logic/animation, and then export to Uru (which would still be an incredible amount of work).

My understanding is that this was something like the plan for AgeCreator, and really any sane editor for Uru. More of an assembly tool specialized for Plasma than a full modeler. Most artists prefer modeling in their own tools anyway. ;)
User avatar
Deledrius
Gehn Shard Admin
 
Posts: 1377
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 1:21 pm

Re: I would like to build a 64-bit version of PyPRP

Postby Christopher » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:54 pm

Isn't it the same to assemble object in an AgeCreator or in Max/Blender? In both you could import objects, apply components for physicals, animations and so on and export it to an age...

Christopher
User avatar
Christopher
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:25 am

Re: I would like to build a 64-bit version of PyPRP

Postby Deledrius » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:32 am

Christopher wrote:Isn't it the same to assemble object in an AgeCreator or in Max/Blender? In both you could import objects, apply components for physicals, animations and so on and export it to an age...

In theory, yes. But in Max and Blender you can do full modeling/texturing/animating as well.
User avatar
Deledrius
Gehn Shard Admin
 
Posts: 1377
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 1:21 pm

Re: I would like to build a 64-bit version of PyPRP

Postby Christopher » Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:28 am

So you don't have to export and import the models you made by yourself.
Well, PyPRP is definitly more complicated than just applying some components. I never really workd with it, but Alcscript don't sound easy. But Max doesn't seem very different to what such a AgeCreator should do (at least in my opinion.)

Christopher
User avatar
Christopher
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:25 am

Re: I would like to build a 64-bit version of PyPRP

Postby DreamBliss » Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:15 am

Once again I receive some valuable advice and I appreciate it!

I think I am giving the wrong impression here... I will try to clarify. I have taken it upon myself to learn how to program in C++. In addition to this I am studying algebra, with plans to go to Calculus, Trigonometry, Geometry and Linear Algebra. As I am currently unemployed this is essentially what I do. I study these subjects and spiritual matters, I provide technical support in computer-related issues to my parents, I make video tutorials to teach anything useful I have learned, and I maintain the grounds where I live with my grandmother. My mom gave me the funds to build a computer, really I earned it with all the work I have done for them and my grandmother, but in in case I bought the parts and built myself a computer. So my quest now is to advance my math and programming studies.

Of course I have to relax and play a little so in the evenings I play games or work with them in some way, such as learning how to build ages in Uru. I have nearly 15 years of experience with 3ds Max, level editing (mostly Unreal) and a bunch of other stuff. So I am not a complete n00b here. I ran my own website for a time until Gamespy canceled hosting on everyone. Before that happened I made levels for Unreal, Unreal Tournament, UT 2003/2004 and Morrowind. I also made tutorials showing people how to use 3ds Max and UnrealED. So this is my background, in brief.

Just want to be clear here about what I already understand and know, and what exactly I am doing. I might bounce around from subject to subject, but not in the way one might naturally assume. It's just that I am working on all of this, deepening my knowledge on each one. In other words I am studying a handful of subjects right now, but I spend a few hours on each every day. Anyhow I hope that helps everyone better understand me.

Now about the editor idea, to answer Christopher... True, you can do everything in Max or Blender. But its a bit like using a wrecking ball to squish a mosquito... You know the old saying, how to eat an elephant? "One bite at a time..." Well this applies to working in 3d as well, especially with everyt6hing being so complex now. Breaking a task down among a few easy-to-use and understand tools trumps trying to do it all at once in one tool. Back in the days when UT was at its height the community was so large because it was very easy to make a level. You could literally build the equivalent of an age in UT in about 15-30 minutes with lighting and everything, and be able to play it right away. Some of those levels would probably still impress you even today. Of course the more impressive ones took longer. But the point is that level design was easy with UnrealED. I was right there at its height, I watched the community grow and then fall apart as level design grew more difficult. I learned a very important lesson about tool design, through the use of UnrealED and TESCS (Morrowind's editor) as well as Blender and Max.

That's why an age editor is needed for Uru. It frees folks up from having to use any specific modeling program for building an age. That right there will draw in folks, because they don't have to choose between free and complicated (Blender) or easy and expensive (Max.) They could build with DeleD, or Wings 3D. The modeling programs would handle animation tasks and geometry tasks. In other words, you create a character in your modeling software, or you create some sort of model, whether it be a wall panel, a light, a statue - whatever. You create your textures in Gimp or Photoshop. Then the job of the level editor is to import all your assets so you can construct your age with them. You do your lighting right there in the editor. Perhaps you also build your skybox there. You create your mechanism animations. Essentially you construct your age from the pieces you have created elsewhere.

If the editor is well-designed and easy to use, it automates many of the tasks you would have to spend time scripting or setting in Blender with PyPRP or the plugin in Max. If it is very well designed it will import animations from all the most common applications and set everything up for you for Uru/MOUL. Making your own book could be a menu option where you add a screenshot for the pic and a texture for the binding. You could have another dialogue for entering your age sequence and name. Start points and lights would be a simple right click and add. Collision could be generated automatically, and yet also be configurable as needed. Subworlds would be easier to set up. Textures could be added to your meshes on-the-fly. Maybe the editor has basic BSP operations (don't know if the Plasma engine supports BSP - have to figure that out) so you could make the rough design for a level, then add meshes for detail. Maybe the editor even has a built in terrain generator.

Hopefully you get the picture. A good editor and large, helpful community behind it will draw folks to Uru (and its sequels) like moths to a flame. We just have to remember not to make the same mistake the folks behind Unreal did. We have to keep the editor familiar, consistent, easy-to-understand and easy-to-use. Folks have to be able to make a fully functional age in minutes. As long as they can do that they will stick around.

If you have any other questions for me on this (or any other subject) feel free to ask!
If the spark does not desire the tinder there is no flame.
User avatar
DreamBliss
 
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:28 am
Location: Unknown...

Re: I would like to build a 64-bit version of PyPRP

Postby Mystler » Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:43 am

Just out of curiosity: This thread originally was about PyPRP for Blender.
If you have 15 years of experience with Max, why don't you use Max instead of Blender?
User avatar
Mystler
 
Posts: 116
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:55 am
Location: Germany

Re: I would like to build a 64-bit version of PyPRP

Postby Christopher » Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:08 am

I think I have to crush your expectations... Such an editor will never happen unless you do it yourself. And if I think about how long I needed to learn C++ I don't think you will be able to do something like this in the next 1 or 2 years. It's a nice idea which pops up from time to time in the community in various way, but noone ever finished an Age Creator.

Christopher
User avatar
Christopher
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:25 am

Re: I would like to build a 64-bit version of PyPRP

Postby DreamBliss » Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:39 am

Mystler wrote:Just out of curiosity: This thread originally was about PyPRP for Blender.
If you have 15 years of experience with Max, why don't you use Max instead of Blender?


Simply put... Because Blender is free.

The more complicated version is that I want to live at a higher vibration level and that means I have to do higher vibration things. Since Blender is free I can legitimately use it and provide tutorials for it. Were I to use Max it would cause me to vibrate at a lower vibration level.

Also, because I will be making video tutorials, using Max might be a negative influence to others, while using Blender will not be. How do I expect the average hobbyist gamer to follow along using Max? Also I can reach more people, bring more people into the community, through Blender instead of Max, because more people have access to Blender and can use it, especially the newer versions.

Finally there is something to be said about the whole, "How you build your house" analogy. In the past I used Max. I built my house on sand. While I do not believe in Karma, judgment or eternal consequences now, back then I did, and using Max was a strain on my conscience, and therefore it more than likely negatively impacted my art. I want to do differently, better, this time.

And Christopher... I agree that realistically something like building an editor for Uru, especially for a coder just starting out, is a daunting task, maybe even insurmountable, and certainly something that should take a lot of time. But guess what? I also believe that I create my own reality for myself. So I will invest no energy in what others think of as real or impossible. This is all merely perception. The only reason people can't walk through walls is because they believe that the walls are solid. But we know in science that neither our bodies, no anything around us, is solid at all. Humanities beliefs, ingrained into us from the time of our birth, affect our perception. The human perception of reality as a whole is very limited. I choose to have an unlimited point of view where anything is possible. It may be that I could not code the editor, by myself, in anything under 2 years. But maybe I won't be doing it by myself. Or maybe it will be a far shorter length of time just because I will it to be so.

You live in a world of unlimited possibilities. All things are possible. You just have to believe it! In the Myst universe terms, you have to be Catherine or Yeesha, not Atrus or the D'ni!

OK, we have seriously wandered off-topic here. But that's OK. Let this thread go where it will.
If the spark does not desire the tinder there is no flame.
User avatar
DreamBliss
 
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:28 am
Location: Unknown...

Re: I would like to build a 64-bit version of PyPRP

Postby Christopher » Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:40 am

A bit offtopic:
DreamBliss wrote:But we know in science that neither our bodies, no anything around us, is solid at all.

Uhm, AFAIK physics and chemistry says exactly that the bodies around us are solid...

DreamBliss wrote:The only reason people can't walk through walls is because they believe that the walls are solid. [...] Humanities beliefs, ingrained into us from the time of our birth, affect our perception.

If you go with quantum theory you theoretically could tunnel yourself through the wall. But the chance that one of your atoms tunnel through a Wall with a thickness of 10Å is (IIRC) 0.0000001%... So if we calculate this for your whole body you would die at inner bleedings before you are at the other side of the wall, but it's possible.

btw, I didn't really get the "vibration" analogy... Do you mean Blender sets you to a higher energetic level?

Christopher
User avatar
Christopher
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:25 am

PreviousNext

Return to Plasma Development

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron