Gehn.20 Live!

[Sirius]

I'm not sure the Guild pubs are supposed to be in J'Taeri though. It's possible people are making those assumptions based on KI coordinates which isn't reliable given the pubs are copied from the Watchers Sanctuary. To be honest, given that the Guilds had houses throughout the cavern and the sheer amount of people in the guilds, the pubs could easily be pretty much anywhere in the cavern.

The neighbourhoods all have the same KI coordinates as well despite being multiple locations along the cavern wall (and not instances like many claim due to said KI coordinate issues).

Actually, you're totally right, and there is an obvious reason to it. If you look up, you see the ceiling of the cavern, which wouldn't be possible from Ae'Gura (neither from J'Taeri, nor from the GZ). And, if you use flymode, you can see none of the pubs are high enough to be in J'Taeri, according to the cavern background.

You can also notice that the buildings on the background don't look like Ae'Gura... Actually, that's a UV mapping problem. The buildings shown on it are half the city proper, half Ae'Gura (texture is similar to this one). I don't know whether that's intended or not.

I guess we sometime tend to assume the great tree pub is in the same district as the other pubs, since they share the exact same design (and inherited its KI coordinates).

And yeah, KI coordinates are not always reliable. Looking in Blender, coordinates for the great tree pub look waaay too close to the GZ to be in J'Taeri.



Either way, it seems Cyan didn't really care where the pubs were, or how they looked like, but only intended to have a place for people to meet, without having to go through all the trouble of making an entirely new location. Personally I don't see the problem with it being under the Guild Hall. Cyan themselves didn't always check their lore was accurate, and the space available under the guild hall seems big enough to have a pub (well, a very classy pub, that it).

Which reminds me to congrats Doobes, because now the messengers pub really looks like a pub. The original pubs have private alcoves, but they all lacks bars, fountains, tables, and all things you would expect in a pub. Even the small Kahlo pub looks more like a pub.

[Nev'yn]

That is a LOT farther down than I was thinking, I guess I thought it was just supposed to be a small location of the guild hall building itself. But now I have to think you're right because I found a set of three windows that perfectly match the style of the windows in the new pub, and are facing the same view.

I thought I recognized that window texture from somewhere. There is at least one other set of three windows like this, but its view wouldn't match. That's really pretty cool he chose an exact spot like that!

Back when I was member of the GoC (before joining GoMe), Prof. Almaron and I begain working on an improved map of the city as my guild project, doing an extensive survey of Ae'gura. Several floors above, should be the location of where the Barron's office is located within the Mount. (Sadly, due to creative oversight, there are no matching external windows to the location.) Anys, we thought about using a canyon mall location, but excluded it due previous restoration efforts in the area. It should be noted we had to recreate the window from scratch. GoMe also owes the GoW yet another set of thanks for providing a HD version of backdrop. the one we previously used was a poor CC copy.

Ok, just to put my lore hat on. The Guild Hall does not contain any guild pubs. It contains offices for the 18 guilds and the council chamber. The Guild Hall houses 6 wings with 3 windows, each wing houses 3 guilds. Each of the 3 windows is of a different guild office.

The guild hall is not the only place in D'ni the guilds operate out of, they had establishments all over the cavern and Ages that they worked out of...

{continued from later post)
...The Great Tree pub/Watchers Sanctuary is in J'Taeri. Rolep is a different location in the cavern, people got confused by words of the Watcher with the tree in the Watchers Sanctuary and went "zomg same place!" and unfortunately that misconception has persisted over the years.

I'm not sure the Guild pubs are supposed to be in J'Taeri though. It's possible people are making those assumptions based on KI coordinates which isn't reliable given the pubs are copied from the Watchers Sanctuary. To be honest, given that the Guilds had houses throughout the cavern and the sheer amount of people in the guilds, the pubs could easily be pretty much anywhere in the cavern.

The neighbourhoods all have the same KI coordinates as well despite being multiple locations along the cavern wall (and not instances like many claim due to said KI coordinate issues).

This new "pub" is more a "tavern/meeting hall". Much like WhiteHall in the UK, the Mount was a government/adminstrative center. That being said, there were private clubs, cloak rooms, ect. located within WhiteHall for members of the House of Lords and government officials to exclusively patronize. Before th Fall, this area is much the same, a place for higher-ranked Messengers, to rest, relax, and unwind after reporting back from an assignment. As with the creation of the House of Commons, many of those previously private locations are now open to all leverls of HM government and staff. This area is much the same, now welcoming all explorers of the cavern as a place refuge.

It should be noted, this place did not "replace" the old pub. The GoW have simply exchanged the linking book in the Nexus, which diverts you to this location instead. Our "official story" is the Guild Assembly Hall located in J'Taeri recently suffered a major collapse. The old pub itself was merely a ""foyer" into the meeting hall to gather before GoMe meetings and posting notices for members. Here is a copy of GoMe's IC statement on the pub location change, for those whom are interested:

As much as the membership of GoMe appreciates the hard work the DRC put into creating these “informal pubs" at the entrances to the assembly halls of the various guilds...Well to put it simply, with the collapse of the roof and several support columns of ours, GoMe has neither the funding or manpower to restore such a huge auditorium to functionality. The reception area (a.k.a. "pub") still seems safe enough for general explorer use, and GoMe will continue to post informational ki-mails there as long as the imager continues to function, and the site remains stable and secure. Please do not attempt to explore into the curtained off sections, however. Doing so is at your own risk, and GoMe cannot be held liable for those who venture into such debris filled areas. We welcome you to visit the new guild pub and tavern when it opens in the next few weeks. GoMe and its members would like to thank you for your patience and continued support during this time of transition.

[Tweek]

It should be noted, this place did not "replace" the old pub. The GoW have simply exchanged the linking book in the Nexus, which diverts you to this location instead. Our "official story" is the Guild Assembly Hall located in J'Taeri recently suffered a major collapse. The old pub itself was merely a ""foyer" into the meeting hall to gather before GoMe meetings and posting notices for members. Here is a copy of GoMe's IC statement on the pub location change, for those whom are interested:

As much as the membership of GoMe appreciates the hard work the DRC put into creating these “informal pubs" at the entrances to the assembly halls of the various guilds...Well to put it simply, with the collapse of the roof and several support columns of ours, GoMe has neither the funding or manpower to restore such a huge auditorium to functionality. The reception area (a.k.a. "pub") still seems safe enough for general explorer use, and GoMe will continue to post informational ki-mails there as long as the imager continues to function, and the site remains stable and secure. Please do not attempt to explore into the curtained off sections, however. Doing so is at your own risk, and GoMe cannot be held liable for those who venture into such debris filled areas. We welcome you to visit the new guild pub and tavern when it opens in the next few weeks. GoMe and its members would like to thank you for your patience and continued support during this time of transition.

There is an issue with that - "The old pub itself was merely a ""foyer" into the meeting hall to gather before GoMe meetings and posting notices for members." That's imposing your lore upon Cyan content which is a no-no. Cyan lets us build new areas of D'ni as long as they are self contained and don't tread on their stuff, this allows them to retcon them out at a later date if they need to, but we're not allowed to touch their stuff.

[Nev'yn]

Hmm...

...To be honest, the post was written in such a way, both the new/old pub could exist on the same shard should it ever be needed/possible...While preserving the IC use exisitng pub on Moula...

...Will have to think on this one for improved phrasing.

[Whilyam]

"We didn't want to keep using this cramped, crappy pub the DRC gave us when there's this cavernporn of a location to use"

There's your IC statement. You're welcome.

[Ehren]

Actually, you're totally right, and there is an obvious reason to it. If you look up, you see the ceiling of the cavern, which wouldn't be possible from Ae'Gura (neither from J'Taeri, nor from the GZ). And, if you use flymode, you can see none of the pubs are high enough to be in J'Taeri, according to the cavern background.

I think your reason overlooks a likely explanation...

I think what you are seeing is actually the ceiling of a separate alcove that the pub happens to be located in. Similar to seeing the ceiling of the neighborhoods but that isn't the main cavern's ceiling.

And I don't think you can use how the background looks in flymode as much of a judgement of location, it seems like Cyan were just using it for the small bits of background that you can actually make out through the small windows around the upper part of the pub opening, which doesn't really seem like it reveals much.

[Sirius]

True, the background's only purpose might just be to say "hey, you're still in the cavern".

The pubs don't need to be high up near the ceiling of the cavern - what I failed to say correctly, is that because of the alcove's ceiling, it doesn't feel like it's located in the cliff of an island (even less in the top part of Ae'Gura. 5 alcoves wouldn't fit IMHO). Personally, I feel alcoves for the pubs (and the neighborhood, since they look alike) are located in the cliffs on the side of the cavern. Maybe close to the city proper.

But again, the only clue about the pubs' location is in the design of the pubs themselves, which was merely inherited from the great tree pub (and maybe the neighborhood for the alcove). If someone comes up with a proper (by that I mean unique, and not copied) design for one of the pubs, I don't think relocating it/making another pub elsewhere breaks the lore of the game. Just my opinion though.

"We didn't want to keep using this cramped, crappy pub the DRC gave us when there's this cavernporn of a location to use". There's your IC statement. You're welcome.

[Tweek]

Well when it comes to the GoW pub I'm working on it is a straight up replacement. It's a case of "this is the Writers guild pub and always has been..I have no idea what you're talking about with a writers guild pub that looks like a copy of the watcher sanctuary".