Well Organized List?

Special tutorials, usually for the exporter plugin, but also general modeling tutorials.

Well Organized List?

Postby Nek'rahm » Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:49 am

I'm incredibly new to Blender (as all know)

I've only made one age so far: A big block of ground with a Linking Book to Kirel Neighborhood

Now, I don't know how to do much. I followed Alcugs, but if ANYONE has a list of tutorials in order of difficulty. I'd LOVE to learn more, but things are so sporadic online it's hard to find stuff in order of difficulty.. or even a complete example of how to do something :D
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Re: Well Organized List?

Postby Chacal » Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:46 pm

You should definitely do the tutorials on Blender.org.

Also, I'm writing a follow-up to the one I did about deleting a collider in Relto. This time it will be about modifying some colliders in the City, letting you enter new areas. It is a good practice for manipulating vertices.
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Re: Well Organized List?

Postby andylegate » Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:52 pm

The main thing that I don't like about the Alcugs tutorials, is that they are sort of thrown together.

Just about every 3D program that I've used to create a virtual world that you can walk around end always had the same pattern for their tutorials:

1 Program Basics and Interface (learning how to use the basic features, and get used to navigating with the program)
2 Basic Mesh (Brush, Object, etc) Manipulations (shows you how to make basic things, so you can get used to scaling, sizing, cutting, etc all the meshes that you use to make, well, many many things)
3 Your First Room (this is something that Alcugs lacks, they have Making your first Age, but its....very...limited. Basically shows you how to make a your Book, a plane, throw in one object, and then export. That's not enough. It should be like I stated: Have you make a basic room, with a floor, 4 walls, a ceiling, how to texture those things, and how to put in some lighting. There are other tutorials for Texturing and Lighting, but they can be done with this tutorial, to give you more of a sense of building something)
4 Advanced Mesh (this shows you how to do much more advanced mesh manipulations, like 3D cuts, shaping and carving your objects)
5 Terrain Building
6 Advanced Texturing (in the First Room tutorial, you use simple textures. This one show you how to do more advanced stuff, like texture painting, decals, etc)
7 Lighting (the on in Alcugs is so-so, it just kind of throws it out there, and hopes that people can figure out a way to make the lighting look good........which is very hard right now)
8 Skies and Enviorment (kinda self explanitory)
9 Scripting

Now, what I did, was of course started with the Blender Noob to Pro tutorial, and walked away with a bad taste in my mouth......sorry, but I used to be a course manager and instructor, that tutorial needs a lot of work.
So instead, I simply plowed on learning how to navigate and how to manipulate meshes first. Took awhile as Blender is different than any other program that I used before. But I kept at it until I got more and more at ease with it.

Then I decided to Make My First Room. Taking what I had learned about navigating Blender and manipulating Meshes, I took bits and pieces from the Alcugs tutorials, and learned how to make just a basic room for my first Age. Then I started learning more advanced stuff, but using the same room to make it look better and better, and what NOT to do, or what does and what does not work.

The best advice that I can give you: As a new Age creator.....start small and simple. More than what you described, but don't try to make an Age like Eder Kemo or Teledahn right away. If you start out trying to make something really big and complicated, chances are you'll get very frustrated and not want to do it, or give up. Keep it small at first. You don't even have to show anyone what you've done with it. Think of it as your Scratch Pad. Once you feel like you know what you're doing better, then think about that bigger, more complex Age.
And that's another thing: Think it through. Sit down and make notes about the Age you want to make, how you want it to look. It's theme. Draw sketches if you can, or take a trip somewhere that looks like it to see with your eyes, or take pics to bring back with you.
Then plan it out, how you want to build it.
Then start.

Other suggestions, and you'll find these suggestions for every 3D editor type for other games out there:

1) Make sure you have time to do this.
2) Keep distractions away: turn off the TV, get some alone time for it.
3) Music: listen to music that you like while doing this.
4) Take breaks: Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither will your Age. Don't burn yourself out, unless you feel you're on a roll.
5) If something is not right, or not working right......step away from it for a while. Do something else for awhile. Then come back.
6) Come here and ask questions. No question is stupid. EVER! I don't care how smart someone thinks they are, nobody, and I mean NOBODY knows it all! No mater how "Noobish" a question might seem, it is someone seeking information because they want to do something creative. Anyone that answers you with sarcasm, insults, or belittles you in anyway for asking a question, no matter how simple it might seem, does so to make themselves feel better. I've found the Majority of people on here are quite helpful and answer most of the questions when they can. Some tend to be a little terse in their answers (pay them no mind, they just might be having a bad day themselves). If you still feel confused or don't understand, ask again, be patient, someone that knows a way to explain it so that YOU understand it will happen along. Move on to something else in the mean time.
7) Not everyone can produce a Cyan looking Age. Don't put yourself down. Keep trying. You'll find that most people here, and the Maintainers will pat you on the back and offer kudos for trying. Listen to their suggestions and comments. But remember, you'll be your hardest critic on anything.

8) Keep on the look out for upgrades, new versions, and new tools to help you. There are a LOT of people working behind the scenes so to speak to make the tools we use right now better and better.

Hoped this helped.
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Re: Well Organized List?

Postby Aloys » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:25 pm

The thing is that the tutorials on the Wiki were not written in a structure, planned, or otherwise cohesive way. And first of all they were not written as a coherent Blender manual or an introduction to 3D content creation. They were written to tell people how to use the technical features of PyPRP and how to use them inside Blender. As all game development "Age Creation" has two aspects: content creation (3D/2D/gameplay/story etc) and technical implementation via the various tools (PyPRP/Python/Plasmashop/PRPExplorer etc) the tutorials we have only cover the second aspect. For people who have some basic 3D knowledge or a good deal of patience and motivation, that is enough. And those people composed almost all the user base of PyPRP so far. (and beside there were no ressources to write more structured tutorials anyway). Now as more people are drawn to Age creation this is not enough..

Ideally some of those tutorials would need to be simply restructured and updated, but most of them would need to be simply re-written from scratch. But that requires a lot of work. And right now I don't think we have people around who have both the skills, the time, and the motivation to do that. (and a lot of each would be required)

(As I proof-read my post I see I'm essentially rambling out loud, so please, bear with me.)

Also, I agree ideally all informations should be in a single place, and we should be the "Age Creation for dummies" online. But we can't do everything.. One obvious solution is to provide links to existing Blender tutorials. There are probably some decent tutorials out there that we can provide. That won't be a perfect solution but that would be a first step.

As I read your post I realize that more than regular tutorials we'd first need in-depth articles about 3D content creation. Essentiall really basic 3d training. When I read that people are trying to create Ages but don't know what the normal of a triangle is, I know something is missing.. But it's difficult to do that kind of stuff and not to scare people away... The great side of the tutorials we have now is that they enable people to create stuff and play it in Uru quickly, which is really enjoyable, but not the best way to learn.

We have people full of motivation coming and we need to keep them and not scare them away... Maybe the first thing we should do would be to try and write an introduction of sort for new comers.. Hoika's Age Creation FAQ and your post covers some of that ground. We should try to formalize that in a not-too-long and not-too-scary text... If you feel like doing so please do. :) I think the second part of your post above is a good starting point, but maybe it can be enhanced. Making it more positive, more encouraging too. I'm not sure, it's past midnight here and I have a hard time thinking.. I'll give this another look tomorrow.
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Re: Well Organized List?

Postby Nek'rahm » Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:19 pm

Chacal? Are you going to *cough* open the Guild Halls in Complete Chronicles?

I've never seen em before.. I hope you can do that and have the Pubs still intact :P

Only problem being this: Live and CC have different parts. Since CC doesn't have the Guild Halls open, maybe it isn't even in the .blend files. There could be a lack of the Pubs in the CC Version, which were only added when Live went Public.
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Re: Well Organized List?

Postby BAD » Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:49 pm

There is no Guild hall in Uru Complete chronicles. There is the watchers pub, but it is set up differently.
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Re: Well Organized List?

Postby Nek'rahm » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:10 pm

Technically Bad, you're wrong...

There's some barriers blocking the way to the Guild Hall

It still exists... just not in it's entirety

So, just remove the barriers... and...? >_>
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Re: Well Organized List?

Postby BAD » Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:39 pm

No I am not wrong. I have been back there. There is no guild hall at all. The barrier blocks a small alleyway that does not have any collision. It is a dead end.

I am sure Cyan intended to add a way to get to the guild hall from that alley, but they never added it to the age. Sorry.
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Re: Well Organized List?

Postby Chacal » Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:20 pm

OK, er, where to start...
Nek'rahm, you musn't confuse the "Guild Hall" with the "Guild pubs"
The Guild Hall is the triangular balcony on the mountain (at least it's the visible part), right over the dead-end alleyway near the museum. I can open the alley, although it is a bit more complicated than just removing the barriers. This building and the alley are in a separate prp file that contains most of the mountain. The models are very crude, clearly Cyan had (has?) future plans for that place. Interestingly, the triangular pillar on which the balcony rests is named "elevator".

The Guild pubs don't exist at all in CC. They could be recreated using copies of the Watcher's pub, but there wouldn't be a point in doing it. IC, they would probably be located in the same district than the Watcher's pub.
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Re: Well Organized List?

Postby Jennifer_P » Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:49 am

Yeah, those Alcugs tutorials could use some work. As I've been learning from them, I've found out the commands they reference often don't exist where they are supposed to be, or else the effects they are supposed to produce just don't work--and there aren't any "If this tutorial doesn't work, check these issues" sections either.

If I ever get time, I'm planning to write up a set of articles oriented toward people who have never modeled before. And not just the unapplied basics either--I want to include subjects like, "How to make trees" and "How to avoid clashing colors."
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