Ok, let's go again and again, and again...
Trylon wrote:Forking
Basically a fork is a branch in the development process. A project is forked when a group of developers want to go down a different path and implement new features in a different way than the original authors of the software.
The difference is that in this fork, both branches are going the same way.
Trylon wrote:As long as the license permits it, this is perfectly legal.
In this case, PyPRP was under
Gnu Public License (GPL), which allows forks and derivative works, as long as they abide by the GPL. Basically the GPL states that if you release anything, you must make the source code available too, give credit to the original author(s), and put the new project under GPL as well. We did just that.
That's correct, and perfect. There is no best way to explain it.
Trylon wrote:1) Over the past 18 months we heard nothing substantial from Almlys PyPRP-wise.
As I said, short story: I was on another place.
Trylon wrote:2) We invested a lot of time and effort in the additions to PyPRP.
I may have been inactive, but I have been fully aware of all updates done in the repository.
Trylon wrote:3) The GoW was started and became popular. There was a growing push for centralization, and and linking to an external, nearly dead site for tools was becoming an annoyance, especially because the GoW site was fully alive. More and more new writers find their way here, further increasing the desire for keeping things centralized.
Let's say that I hate centralization. (I think that distributed stuff always worked better than centralized stuff, with a centralized system there is only one point of failure, well...)
About this "dead" site, this stuff is really what turns me on fire. The Alcugs Project site is and will be open and maintained. Ok, I know that updating the software does not turn on any shiny light or something that says that the site is maintained, in fact if the site was really unmaintained the forum would have been wipped by an SQL injection attack a lot of time ago due to a security hole present in one of the versions of phpbb used.
Trylon wrote:4) A month or two ago Almlys appeared, and among other things he
accused us of doing an illegal fork (not abiding the GPL). (I think that that actually gave us the idea to do it in the first place.)
Working under someone who isn't involved for a long time and then suddenly accuses you of stuff you didn't do, is not someting that anyone likes.
That sounds like I magically disappear and appear, that's funny because I have been always there, not posting but I have been present in some type of lurking state, and yes I have been lurking over at GoW before I posted that stuff.
About that accusation. I never wanted to make those posts sound as an accusation, I was just burned about reading that you were going to fork the wiki (copy and paste all articles and continue on another place (something that it's perfectly legal, but you must link back to the original article)), so if you were forking the wiki it was obvious that you were going to end forking pyprp, and I wasn't wrong. This besides reading more and more time that some people was working on rewritting some stuff, that for some reason did not appear on the repository was a bit suspicious, also when you have another developer waiting for those contributions so he can continue contributing.
Trylon wrote:5) Almlys announces in the same thread as point #4 that he thought pyprp was dead and wants to combine work on PyPRP and his 7D7 project.
Can you post a quote were I said that pyprp was dead, because I did a search of the words pyprp and dead and I did not see anything related on what are you saying. So please don't put in my mouth things that I have not said.
Now, about that "combine work on PyPRP and his 7D7". For infinitesima vez them are completely different projects. Now, what I see/understand re-using code between both projects. As a developer, you now that there is a class called "alcConvexHull", this is the best example of code that will be re-used between both projects. If I need that code for 7d7, why PyPRP cannot get the updates from the 7d7 project? (them are on separated repositories). In fact improving the current implementation of the alcConvexHull (by using an external C++ library that does the same thing 200% better) we may improve a bit the overall plugin export time. In fact the GUI code that I'm gona be implementing on 7d7 and thus PyPRP is from another Blender plugin, GPL is great for this things... I don't know why I need to write all the GUI stuff from scratch when someone wrote an awesome interface for easily writing GUIs for Blender.
Trylon wrote:We take this thread as a sign that Almlys has lost interest in uru and is focusing on 7D7
I don't know how I need to say things. I don't now Chinese, but I may need to learn it, I suppose that my English sucks a lot and that we are speaking different languages, or that I'm just an useless moron writing nonsenses.
Trylon wrote:6) We did a major rewrite of most of the plugin code, which gives us essentially a whole new version of it.
And?, so I join a project, I rewrite part of the code, and this just gives me the right to go away and fork it. Yes I can legally do it, but you will never see me doing that thing, I'm not that type of person.
Trylon wrote:7) The history mentioned before, along with the knowledge of Almlys flammable temper makes us decide to go solo. We take Almlys total absence from PyPRP development (aside from forum maintenance) as a sign that he has lost interest in Uru.
flammable temper? Ok, yes I can be a bit crazy about some things, ok, but it's not to be interpreted in the way that you did, but well.
total absence? You don't know what are you talking or saying.
forum maintenance? The best way to offend a forum administrator (and turn his flammable temper to the highest levels) is to say to him that is not maintaining it. As I can see you don't know nothing about forum maintenance, or about the inners of Almlys.org server. What were you expecting, a post every time that I logged into the forum? Details about every single update done to the forum software, and the server software? Sometimes I posted stuff on the forum, other times I posted updates in my blog (yes my fault for not mirroring a copy to the forum), and sometimes I considered that it was not necessary to post an update.
Trylon wrote:8) Because we know Almlys flammable temper, we hesitate to contact him early on.
D'oh, my flammable temper, that's not a valid excuse. What could have happened to you? Were you expecting that I was going to launch a nuclear attack to your home for sending just some E-mails?
Trylon wrote:As the day of the new plugin release closes, no one has contacted Almlys yet, so unfortunately, we announce the fork a bit too late to Almlys.
And very good date the one that you decided to announce it.
Trylon wrote:The situation now
We respect Almlys, and also his efforts on developing the first version of PyPRP.
Words don't always reflect the actions performed by some people.
Trylon wrote:We hope that he respects us, and the work we did in the past as well.
I'm not sure what are you expecting me to think about you.
Trylon wrote:That being said, we agree that we might have handled the situation better, and apologize to Almlys for any offense we may have given him.
Let's hope that future situations are handled a bit better. Apologies accepted, although there is now another thing. So le't see if it can bee clarified.
For what I have been reading, It looks like I'm perceived as some type of angry big green monster (or some type of evil crazy mad angry ogre). As far as I know I'm not green, yet.
I suppose that for the way that I think and write, I can for some reason or another hurt the sensibility of the reader. Rumours, lack of communication between other things, make things like this to happen.
I never wanted to offend anyone, I never wanted to attack anyone, and I never wanted to accuse anyone for anything. If you for some reason are feeling offended, attacked or accused by anything that I have said, please re-read again, and if you still feel that as some type off attack/offence/accusation, then please post it, instead of doing a fork and waiting some time to post the announcement of the fork.
Also you can PM me, send me e-mails, send any type of garbage by e-mail, etc.. as far as I know I don't have any type of secret installation filled with nukes with your names.
Trylon wrote:While we will not choose to work under Almlys again, we would like to invite him, once more, to join us in PyPRP development here at the Guild of Writers.
As you were working for me as my slave. As far as I know at Alcugs everybody did exactly what they wanted to do without any problem and complication, and it will continue in the same way. You could have done at alcugs exactly the same work that you are doing here.
"we would like to invite him", that starts to look like that typical stupid situation of two people that don't directly talk between them and use someone else to send messages between them.
No, my work will continue on the original place, were everything started, and were the official PyPRP plugin will continue it's development, besides that I wasted some time witting a nice script that will keep the Alcugs subversion repository in sync with the fork, and would be a waste of time to drop it. (In addition that I'm more comfortable working with my repository, the new one it's a whole lot slower and would reduce a lot the productivity).