Pahts Day & Night cycle

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Pahts Day & Night cycle

Postby Paradox » Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:03 pm

With animations that are capable of being stretched to last the length of the day, I'm curious as to what the actual day length in Pahts is set to. Is it the default 24 hours?

Are there plans to animate the sky for a day/night transition, and have streetlamps react to the hour?

While I'm thinking of crazy nearly-impossible stuff, it would be cool for Pahts to have random storms independent of the day and time, and have those cause the canals to rise and affect the wavesets like Kemo's storm...
I'm willing to look into writing some generic scripts to handle that if people are interested...

>.>
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Re: Pahts Day & Night cycle

Postby Aloys » Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:16 pm

Lights.. in AP?
I hope you won't mind if I run away screaming? ;)
The thing with lights and AP is that the Age wasn't done at all with lighting in mind initially, because 'back then' there was no lights support in PyPRP, so to make up for this I did a lot of vertex painting. And I fear that if some real lights are added in there the whole thing will look weird.. But then again, it may not. I have never done any lighting test in this Age so I can't really say.. What I do know is that the addition of real lighting in the Age would tremendously enhance it. But lighting isn't exactly my greatest skill..

Paradox wrote:With animations that are capable of being stretched to last the length of the day, I'm curious as to what the actual day length in Pahts is set to. Is it the default 24 hours?

Since I never touched it, I'd assume so.

Personally I'm not a big fan of day/night cycle in Ages for several reasons: 1) As the Age author it is much harder to control the mood of your Age when you know that the lighting will change all the time. (how would Gehn's 233 look if it weren't for its eternal dusk? What about Tay?) 2) As a player this is annoying because you can't control it.
I like to spend long stretch of time in some Ages because I like the atmosphere there, but if the light changes, so does the atmosphere, and that kinda breaks the whole thing. Sometimes I want to go to Gira to enjoy some hot sunny relaxing place only to link to some cold rocky Age..
If there was a way to control that somehow that'd be cool with me. In fact I tried to give that some thought in the past but there really is no way to do that unless you use some slightly wonky devices like some time travelling thing (Todelmer), or some sun/gravity controlling machine.. Or you have somehow to base your whole Age design around this (like Teledahn)

Anyhow that's my personal opinion.. But if other people like the idea it could be interesting to give it a try.. If only to see how it turns out, so that it may be used in other Ages.

Are there plans to animate the sky for a day/night transition, and have streetlamps react to the hour?
While I'm thinking of crazy nearly-impossible stuff, it would be cool for Pahts to have random storms independent of the day and time, and have those cause the canals to rise and affect the wavesets like Kemo's storm...
That'd indeed be really cool. :) (I especially like the storm idea -- I love rain) That'd be a lot of work; but that could be worth it.. It'd add a lot to the Age; it lacks animation as it is.

May you could try out some of these ideas in a test Age as a proof of concept?
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Re: Pahts Day & Night cycle

Postby Paradox » Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:53 pm

Sure. I totally agree about the day/night cycle, I love Pahts at eternal twilight. I think that maybe a moon moving around the perimeter of the sky and some cloud motion would be great, but anyways...

I'll make a test Age as soon as I get home, I've got some ideas in mind that I think could possibly take Pahts far beyond even Cyan content. :D
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Re: Pahts Day & Night cycle

Postby Lontahv » Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:21 pm

This sounds like a pretty good idea. :)

I just don't know how AhaPahts will run with the objects not set to "shadeless" (well if we just have a moon that circles around then we don't need to light it I guess).

It's be really nice to have a Gira style day&night--shadows, dynamic light, etc. :)
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Re: Pahts Day & Night cycle

Postby Aloys » Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:27 pm

Animating the sky would definitely be cool... But I\\\'m facing problems here. To lower texture usage and pave the way for future possible animation I changed the skydome and cut it into several meshes (stars, cloud layer 1, cloud layer 2 etc) and while it works for the most part it generates some more transparency issues with the other transparent shaders in the Ages (light flare, trees etc), so I dumped the idea so far. :( I also tried to make it into a single mesh with a complex stencil-powered shaders, but I couldn\\\'t get it to animate because of the stencils.. Not sure if I did something wrong here.. I did that a while ago already, that might work with PyPRP 1.5. I don\\\'t know.

It\'s be really nice to have a Gira style day&night--shadows
Speaking of which: how do the shadows work in Gira? How come they don\'t criple down the framerate?
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Re: Pahts Day & Night cycle

Postby Paradox » Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:34 pm

Transparency issues are something that we are definitely looking to fix in the next release of PyPRP, I can also give you some hints for setting up the sky layers and getting them into the right span types.

If possible, would you be willing to share the Blue courtyard as part of the demonstration Age? I could get wavesets hooked up with Python to show the storm effects, and work on particle effects in the area, plus it has canals to test rising water level...
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Re: Pahts Day & Night cycle

Postby Nadnerb » Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:27 pm

I think we're all forgetting something here. In order for a day/night/storm/anything that affects generalized lighting in the age animation to affect shells, (ie, most of the contents of Ahra Pahts) every object in those shells (that is open to the outside) would have to have those lights appended to them and not be set to shadeless. While this is not impossible to do, it is a major inconvenience either for the shell builders, or whoever is responsible for putting the age together.

I like the idea a lot, but I'm interested to know how you plan to implement it consistently.
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Re: Pahts Day & Night cycle

Postby Ehren » Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:36 pm

For an age THIS big, I think a day/night cycle would be a terrible idea, even if it can handle the load I think it is putting too much into one age. There is a point when you have to say you're not going to add more things because it could be overwhelming to the place. When people make shells they should know what it will look like when a person first sees it, that would be impossible with this. I think changes like a day/night or weather cycle would take too much focus off the shells themeselves.

Ahra Pahts is already giving you guys enough trouble as it is, isn't it? Wasn't the version 1 planned for about half a year ago? It would probably be worth more thought once more shells get filled. Don't get ahead of yourselves!
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Re: Pahts Day & Night cycle

Postby LaReh » Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:55 am

While I agree that a day/night cycle would be nice but an ominous task to implement, a slight darkening of the sky might be necessary to see our text chat against said sky, as it is now, once AP is in MORE. 8-)
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Re: Pahts Day & Night cycle

Postby Lontahv » Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:36 am

Aloys, 'Dox really has lots of things he's been wanting to try on the district (tons of new features that only a few people know how to use yet--ClusterGroups for one have Level-Of-Detail, various 100line alc-script incantations ;) ).
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