Im in ur world, haxxorin ur game...

[Nek'rahm]

Maybe someone should talk to Cyan. Definitely with things like FCA's going around, which can only be used by RECOGNIZING the efforts of the GoW blender workers like Andy and D'eux, to name a few, it does break rules a bit.

I could send a letter to Ryan about this. Just ask if we could have some SOLID information on what's legal and what's not. IMO, this would be a finite set of rules:

It is wrong to...
1) Download Cyan content you haven't already payed for
2) Editing or removing content from Cyan-made Ages
3) Using Cyan property without justifiable permission (ex. you should have an FCA and be legally clear with Cyan that you make Ages)
4) Duplicating Cyan work in personal Ages (ex. Texture copying, using of sounds)
5) Offering "adaptations" or "expansion packs" to Cyan software (ex. using things like the MOUL-auto installer to automatically install things you haven't payed for)
6) Using Myst/Uru content or story directly in an Age (ex. don't have a Riven book in your "created" recreation of Tomahna. In fact, don't even DO Tomahna)
7) Selling/buying content you've made or edited for Uru between parties other than Cyan (odds are they wouldn't buy, but you get what I mean)

I think that's a pretty clear and understandable set of rules. Pretty much, you just be clear with Cyan about what you do before you go ahead and do it. The FCA's are a showing that Cyan notices your work and approves. Apart from that, I dunno what to think anymore :S

[Aloys]

but we've asked permission (or "authorization") to do so. We've obtained FCALs for the plugin, ULM and the ages that we distribute. We've also been authorized to use their sounds.

[That's a bit of an understatment if you ask me (not that you did though ). I was totally flabergasted when they posted "Don't mistake our silence for approval" after we'd been working for over half a year without hearing much if anything from them.. But it's the past and we can't change it.
Right now I think there is nothing we can do but wait. Except for the odd FCAL, communication with Cyan has pretty much crawled to a halt lately; and now that the ball seem to be in GT's court and that Cyan is trying to decide their own future, it doesnt seem like the best time to try and ask them anything..

[Lontahv]

Ok, listen, I never had to pay for most of the MOUL content. Doesn't it download with the installer if you've paid or not? It's just gaining access that's charged.

This is not to condone what Dustin did with the Torrent, but I thought the facts should be known.

~Lontahv

[Paradox]

but we've asked permission (or "authorization") to do so. We've obtained FCALs for the plugin, ULM and the ages that we distribute. We've also been authorized to use their sounds.

[That's a bit of an understatment if you ask me (not that you did though ). I was totally flabergasted when they posted "Don't mistake our silence for approval" after we'd been working for over half a year without hearing much if anything from them.. But it's the past and we can't change it.
Right now I think there is nothing we can do but wait. Except for the odd FCAL, communication with Cyan has pretty much crawled to a halt lately; and now that the ball seem to be in GT's court and that Cyan is trying to decide their own future, it doesnt seem like the best time to try and ask them anything..

Exactly. Especially that bit about "Don't mistake our silence".

As much as Cyan might be giving our FCAs now, they could revoke those at any time and force us to stop distributing PyPRP. The FCAs have a clause that prevents their posting, but they also have a clause saying very clearly "this may be revoked at any time".

[pappou]

Very seldom do i read the 'fine print' to which we all agree every time we download something. Without exception (particularly, without excepting Cyan) it is so user-unfriendly that if i were to take it seriously, i would never open up one of these properties again.

And while this casual attitude (of mine and others) may get us into trouble some day, it is far less a land mine than the notion we have heard mentioned here more than once, that, somehow, it is alright to hack a game because you have bought its CD.

That is poppycock. In the RW you have bought neither the substance nor the intellectual rights to a property when you buy a CD. For instance, you do not own the negatives to a photographic portrait for which you have paid – handsomely; you do not own the rights to a song you have bought on a record; you do not own the working drawings to a house for which you have paid dearly to an architect; etc.

The owner of all these things – the photographer, the singer, the architect, and so forth -- retains their ownership. They do not sell their ownership. All that you have purchased are certain usage rights: You may use the print of your portrait; you may play the song; you own the house you build, to be sure, but you do NOT own the design; and you may not resell that design -- just as you may not resell equity market information, even though you may subscribe to a data service (you may, however, use this information to loose as much money as you care to).

Contrarily, there is another rule floating about in these things. It doesn't really amount to a tort; more like a common law wedding between parties. It is: Don't ask; don't tell.

[Grogyan]

I totally support the hacking in the past and present as its the only way the fans can create their own material, and as such is a normal outlet for their creativity.

If it weren't for hacking, we wouldn't be here now making our own Ages.

Cyan in a way also supported this, but made no real effort to support fan created content past images in your KI box.

A short chat with Eric L after the shutdown pretty much gave up on the idea for implementing a scheme for more user created content.

[Paradox]

This issue has come up at UO again: http://www.uruobsession.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=111&t=33321

Chogon (Mark DeForest) posted the following:

To continue Aeronie's point and turn the bluntness back to JW...

If you insist on an answer right now because this silence is going to make me implode! Well, what you will get will be a cease and desist. But if you let things play out a new Uru future could unfold.

And please stop razzing the mods (at any forum!). I know they have "the power" but with that comes a lot grief, being overworked and underpaid... and on occasion some small rewards (sorry, the QA staff ate the bananas... they eat everything!)


Thanks,
Chogon

So... we're still in risk of being shut down

[Chacal]

Presuming Cyan would indeed be willing to pay for a C&D letter and for the follow-up.

Even so, the logical response to such a letter would be to dump it in the waste basket and carry on.

[D'Lanor]

Doesn't that statement from Chogon explain the contradiction? The way I interpreted it is this: Cyan encourages fan content but currently does not own (all ?) the rights. So he could be warning us for the GameTap lawyers who will be sending that C&D letter until Cyan retrieves those rights.

[Chacal]

Yes that's quite possible.
And Turner does have money for its lawyers.