Guild of Writers Leadership

Re: Guild of Writers Leadership

Postby BAD » Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:51 am

LOL. As I said details only get filled in, in private.

But to answer your question. No.

PM me for more.
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Re: Guild of Writers Leadership

Postby Chacal » Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:52 am

Ah OK, that's the only incident I remember. Early 2005 or something.
I was hoping to open a shard at the time.
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Re: Guild of Writers Leadership

Postby BAD » Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:56 am

Well the official response to the GOA collapse was that disagreements among some of the Admins caused them to leave the guild, and thus cripple a lot of its purpose. That is true, but not the whole story.
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Re: Guild of Writers Leadership

Postby belford » Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:46 pm

This all underscores the importance of conducting Writers business in public, as much as possible. If this falls apart, we shouldn't be under NDAs which prevent the next group from learning from our mistakes!

(I am not opposed to a private forum per se -- see other thread. But I do oppose the notion that the "real work" of the Guild should be work done in private, or in an NDA relationship with Cyan. The point is to get Ages written, and help people write Ages. Those are not tasks that require secrecy.)
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Re: Guild of Writers Leadership

Postby Chacal » Sun Dec 09, 2007 2:13 pm

The guild has no legal existence. It can not sign a NDA. And it does not control its members.
Any NDA must be signed by any individual who wishes to get privileged information.
This is as it should.

Paradox wrote:Cyan will not deal with us collectively, they will want to have a contact person who could be held accountable for all actions of the Guild. (Essentially, they need to know who to send the Cease and Desist orders to).

For the reason mentioned above, this makes no sense at all.

Ergo, there is no point in secret communication between the guild and Cyan.
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Re: Guild of Writers Leadership

Postby BAD » Sun Dec 09, 2007 7:37 pm

That would make sense if the guild produced an age as a group. Once you agree to and produce work on the group project you are legally responsible for what is made. Still that would exclude those members who didn't want to help out.

It may be that a portion of the guild will need to sign NDAs if Cyan wants a project (such as additions to existing ages) done. Again, that would be only on a voluntary basis.

Your right tho, it will ultimately always be up to the individual.

Bedford,

We have no intention to create any private areas on this forum beyond the council private discussion area, and private forums for age dev teams who wish to keep certain aspects of their projects secret for story or puzzle purposes.
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Re: Guild of Writers Leadership

Postby Chacal » Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:10 am

The list of candidates has been posted.

The list is out, and we never get to vote on the proposal itself, which then isn't a proposal anymore, it is a decree.
I thought this proposed structure would be submitted to a vote, so there would be at least a little legitimacy to it.

I'm disappointed, to say the least.
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Re: Guild of Writers Leadership

Postby andylegate » Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:37 am

Actually, if you take a look at Trylon's first post he said:

A full document describing the new structure can be found here,
You are strongly encouraged to read it before asking further questions, as it will answer quite a few of them already.

Over the course of the next week or two, Bad, Pryftan, and I will in conjunction with the H'Uru Team, make up a list of candidates for the five core Council positions.
This list will afterwards be submitted to the Guild for final acceptance. After that process is finished, we will have a full council.
The aforementioned document describes this process in more detail.
We will personally contact each candidate beforehand to see if they would be willing to be considered for the position.
Please note that we will not act as a temporary council, except on the issue of selecting people to be proposed for the positions.


And the first reply to the post was by you, saying:

This is a good effort, kudos to you all.
While I still don't agree with you on the fundamentals (such as "we need a structure" or "we need to speak with one voice" or "this has to change"), this is not important enough for me to argue against. Making Ages is important. Besides, my reasons are probably just personal.

Your proposal has a lot of merit and I'm sure it will meet the approval of everyone.
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Re: Guild of Writers Leadership

Postby Chacal » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:38 am

Yes I know. Look at my last sentence in that post. I thought this was a proposal.
All this debate was enjoyable but useless, as it seems the issue was already decided.
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Re: Guild of Writers Leadership

Postby Trylon » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:16 am

I'm sorry if we in any way unknowingly misled you.

Please be assured that all the discussion was not in vain - a few legitimate issues have been raised, and I always viewed any important point as something the new council should certainly address, and propose as an amendment.

A minor example of something that already has had its effect was the suggestion one member did of adding an "abstain" choice to the proposal's poll's, something that would not have happened without this discussion.

However, any system needs a starting point, and that is what I consider this. We could spend much debating on what to do beforehand, or we could start a system and improve it.
For now we need a reference point, something to start from and say "that should be changed, not because I think so, but because it has been proven to need change". Without starting up, all the numbers discussed, e.g. poll acceptance thresholds remain, arbitrary numbers. By testing them out and adapting them according to what is experienced, we can improve. All productive learning experiences need some form of field-testing.

Please note as well, that any member can prepare an amendment or change, and either have the council propose it, or make it a member proposal, so the system is highly adaptable. (And in a number of ways still flawed as well). However, until there really is a council, this system cannot be properly tested, or properly changed.
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