Discussion: Councilor Roles Tweak

[Robert The Rebuilder]

I think OHB would be great for the job. But I also think PaladinOfKaos/Branan would as well. Just to give OHB some fair competition.

[Branan]

Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I don't want the job.

I want to help lay the foundations to make sure moving forward I can keep doing what I want to do: developing tools to work with Plasma and Uru. To that end I'm willing to continue to offer my input and advice to the guild leadership and to anyone else interested in making sure that we're able to keep doing what we love. But once that groundwork is laid I'm going to do my best to retire from politics.

[Whilyam]

I approve of OHB's nomination. We certainly need to replace inactive people.

[Carl Palmner]

Just wanted to throw in my support for OHB on this one as well. And...here's why:

Tonight at the All Guilds Meeting, OHB and several other Writers who also happen to be Gray Hats gave a presentation about the new hoods for sanctioned hacking. There were several people in the audience who behaved very rudely, and a few who were even quite insulting. Now, when you're in the spotlight like they were, it is extremely difficult not to respond to this kind of behavior with similar behavior--I know because I've been in that situation before. In fact, a few of the presenters lost their heads and responded with equal rudeness, unfortunately lowering themselves to the level of their antagonists. OHB was not one of them. I was extremely impressed by how coolly he handled the entire presentation and situation--tactfully ignoring troublemakers, responding to the polite genuine concerns and making sure not to leave anyone out who was polite, even if they disagreed.

The reason I mention this is that it strikes me that someone who can maintain a cool, polite, diplomatic attitude in that kind of a stressful situation is exactly the kind of person we want representing us to other Guilds, to Cyan and to the community.

[Chacal]

Hi everyone,
I have looked at the proposal, in the light of recent posts in the "MOUL hacked" thread. In particular this post from OHB explains a lot:

This all came about after the hacking at the end of Rand's visit to the city a couple of weeks ago. An opportunity was seen and taken. We reached out to RAWA to discuss the matter and he proposed the creation of the hoods. Stunned, excited, and eager, we accepted his proposal and started discussion the particulars of who was going to do what, what was allowed and what wasn't, etc.

Seeing this, I understand fully where the proposal comes from, and it ties nicely with Hoikas' first post about wishing to upgrade the guild's public image. I think you guys did a wonderful job of seizing an opportunity to upgrade the guild image and this might create enough interest to keep the game alive. Or it might kill it, but at this point it is slowly dying anyway. It is clear that this is an opportunity for the guild to take over the future of Uru.

My opinion is as follows:
1- Because of the above, I approve the idea of appointing OHB as the GoW's PR representative - no matter how the role is formally identified.
2- Because of the above, I approve the creation of a councilor role for PR.
3- I disapprove the original proposal. It is badly conceived, presented and worded. I'll try to make it better.

My problems with the proposal are:
a) You are proposing to alter the structure of an organization based on the abilities and availability of individuals. This is a Very Bad Idea. Instead, the structure should be flexible enough to make use of such abilites and availability, regardless of the individuals.
b) You are concentrating too much responsibilities in the hands of too few individuals. This is risky because people tend to go MIA, and because of the lack of checks and balances.
c) "Intra-Guild" was not a typo. The job definition was correct.
d) "Inter-Guild" is not coherent with the proposed goal of communication with the community and Cyan Worlds.
e) All that is needed is the addition of a PR concilor.
f) The proposal does not clearly state the proposed changes to the current structure.
g) The proposal is mixed up with a call for appointment.

Because of these problems, I cannot vote yes to this proposal as it is now.

I will post a modified proposal in a different thread in an effort to get things straightened up.
I suggest this current thread be used for discussion on appointment, and that discussion on a new structure be moved to that other thread.

EDIT: Posted. If people agree with replacing the current proposal with my new proposal, discussion can move to this new thread. If people do not agree, then we have two proposals on the table, each one will have to be voted on.

[Branan]

The "intra guild" position more or less exists as it does currently becase Kato was running the website at the time, and a third position was needed. This doesn't invalidate your argument against doing things because of who's around, but it does show that the current structure has some concepts that came from that, and that maybe that position isn't all that important after all.

Hoikas' proposal, essentially, gives us three broad categories: Artistic leadership, Technical leadership, and Human Relations/Public Relations. Some refinement to the propsal is needed, especially with the new inter-guild position, but I still think that there are plenty of merits to it as it stands.

The current system already allows the councilors to appoint "directors", so I'm not sure the MIA thing is really a huge problem? The only real solution to that, if you feel directors are insufficient, is to rebuild the system with more councilors.


I'll also note that there's no requirement in the current Guild rules that councilor elections be treated as proposals, but regardless I think formally dealing with OHB's nomination should wait until we've finalized exactly how the structure will work moving forward.


EDIT: to make things clear, I think both this proposal and Chacal's new proposal have their own merits, and I hope we can reach a compromise on how to organize things.

[Carl Palmner]

Personally I like the current document just fine. But everyone else seems to agree that some kind of change is necessary, so I assume it probably is. I definitely think someone should be handling PR for the GoW. Given the choice between this proposed change and the other (Chacal's), my own preference is this one that Hoikas proposed. To me it seems like less of a change than Chacal's, and more importantly, does not remove or alter the Councilor of Artistic Direction in anyway. IMHO, a good balance between art and technical concerns is a must.

[ZURI]

I see advantages to both Adam's and Chacals proposals. However, from my POV, one thing is very important. Art.

Most (if not all) of the people who have a beef with the GoW think we're all a bunch of hackers. While it's panamount for this organization to have technical skills, I think it's also important for us to have an artistic image.

I like the idea of having OHB for PR. He has a good "heh, PR," with the URU community, but I'm concerned that he may be a bit "too" technical. I'd like to hear what OHB has in mind - relating to this.

@OHB I, in no way, have any debate as to your abilities. My only concern is that we are all equally represented.

The URU Fans out there need to realize that not all of us are programmers. Many, if not most of us, came here with little or no coding experience. I, personally, have seen people with Zero modelling/programming/texturing experience overcome their disadvantages - and learn to make ages. Unfortunately, if we hadn't come into contact - I firmly believe they would have given up. Only after realizing that others - who had to tackle the same learning curve, could succeed - were they empowered to do the same.

In a nutshell, I think we shouldn't be seen as Hackers - but as Writers...

My 2 cents,

[kaelisebonrai]

Art is indeed important, ZURI, and I agree - But I do feel that OHB is the best choice for the PR councilor job. That's not to say we couldn't benefit from more visibility in the sense of art - because art is a very important part of what we do as writers - but I don't personally feel that the PR councilor has anything to do with that. =P

There's no just /need/ for the PR position to have anything to do with art - its not the sort of thing they'd be concerned with, anyways, and really OHB is the best man for the job at this stage. =P

[OHB]

I like the idea of having OHB for PR.///but I'm concerned that he may be a bit "too" technical....

Well, I am technical, and that's where I start. But I've spent many years training and teaching and doing PR-esque things. I also have a lot of patience and I like explaining things to people. I don't mind taking the time to find the best way explain things so that they're accessible to all.

In addition, I like learning new things. The artistic side of things fascinates me. While I don't have the brain to do it, I can appreciate what ya'll artists do. Just because I do technical things, doesn't mean I can't talk about non-technical things. I'll be just as happy to report a beautiful new age design or musical composition as I would be to report something geeky and technical. I might not completely understand or appreciate what goes in to creating a work of art, but I can appreciate the work of art.