Ways to intertwine story and gameplay?

[rivenwanderer]

I'd like to have a general discussion of the role of the player in an Age's story, and how it relates to the Ages people in the GoW are building. Hopefully other folks out there are interested in talking about this stuff This is all obviously a very OOC discussion--more from the point of view of a game designer than a Writer.

What I want to explore is how the person playing through an Age can affect its story, and what goals the player can have while exploring. The baseline mode of interaction is for the player to be passive, storywise. The player wanders around, solves puzzles in order to gain access to all areas of an Age, and reads journals. This allows them to absorb backstory, but how can the player have a more active, compelling role?

In the Myst games, the player carries out tasks for characters they encounter. Sometimes this is because the characters are incapable of action on their own (Myst, Riven), and sometimes it's because the character wants the player to experience something (Yeesha's missions). The desire to complete the tasks is something that motivates the player to solve the puzzles even after the "oo, shiny!" factor of exploring a new Age has worn off.

If you are creating an Age in which the stories happened a long, long time ago, how do you involve the player? Can the player have a non-passive role without NPCs needing things done for them?

One device that can work to motivate the player to solve puzzles is to hide the linking books leaving the Age behind puzzles, effectively trapping them there until everything is solved. Myst is a good example of this. If everyone has a Relto book, and thus an automatic way out, is this still a useful technique?

How is the player's role as a D'ni explorer different from the role of the Stranger in the earlier Myst games? What kind of role do today's Writers envision for the people who explore the Ages they write? Is there an interest in creating gameplay, like in the games, or are people more interested in simply creating an interesting environment for explorers to wander around in?

(edited to add: just found this post with some good thoughts on puzzle design, but it leaves me with more questions than answers...)

[Godot]

I have always thought of computer games as interactive novels.
I think that the URU culture and guilds provides an opportunity for the players to add their story ideas to that culture.
I think we are doing what you are suggesting.
A computer program by its nature is predefined unless someone can come up with a new level of AI that would allow for spontanious, machine generated, story creation.

[rivenwanderer]

I hope the post didn't come across as "You're doing it wrong"

I meant to ask what people are doing--what level of player-story involvement they want, what kinds roles the explorers of their Ages might have, etc...

What is the "state of the art" in game design as it applies to Age creation?

[J'Kla]

I personally have no problem with this as a discussion point.

I have always looked on the games in the Uru Universe as interactive novels with a learning component. The age I am working on requires the player to develop some skill (not a lot) in D'ni numbers and another in mapping (I am not going any deeper as it may constitute a huge spoiler.

There is an element of developing some skill in lateral thinking. One of the areas I have been thinking about is the development of "Bot Avatars" I don't know if this is the correct name but the Yeesha we meet at the cleft is a similar idea and Zandi has some of the workings. If you persistently fail at finding the start and keep going back to Zandi he provides an array of clues that most people don't hear.

The aim I am looking at is a character like this who you communicate with via KI mail.

This KI mail option will be complex and smacks of a Turing machine. At the moment there is Python embedded code that should be capable of providing the mechanics of an expert system. One of the primary recognised steps towards artificial intelligence.

For an expert system to be generated you really need a system complex enough to justify the need of an expert system.

There's a neurosurgeon statement that applies "If the human mind was simple enough to understand we would be too simple to understand it" This is probably a clever quote fro somebody prehaps someone would like to google an answer to that (I am trying to maintain a flow of conciousness here).

The Uru puzzles are a little like the Sheepdog reward. A Border collie sheepdog runs (works with) sheep the reward for the dog is the oppertunity to work with (run) sheep. My Uru version would carry an addendum to that.

The reward that an Uru explorer gets from doing Uru puzzles is the opportunity to do Uru puzzles and to help others do Uru puzzles.

I am mindful of helping a disabled user do the Ercana puzzle with the pushed rock the help was on line using hints passed via KI there was an element of care so as to guide not give the answer straight out. There was a significant feeling of success when the player in question solved the puzzle.

There is a degree of skill required to give enough help without spoiling the game that would be required for the "Bot Avatars" I mentioned earlier.

I intend to return to this discussion later but real life intervenes and real life is a fact for those who can't face Uru.

[Godot]

I have long been interested in the educational possabilities of gameplay.
Young people spend a lot of time playing games and if a game requires them to use real world skills at the same time as they are having fun they might find it more engaging than doing traditional homework.

[Godot]

I think of participation in the GOW as continuing the story of URU.
Building ages is the most complex and difficult form of multiplayer gameplay that I have yet encountered.
At least for a few hours a week are we not the D'Ni?

[BAD]

I have tonnes of ideas for incorporating players actions into the workings of an age. Right now I am trying to distill some ideas for Kierra's latest project.

The problem I have is working out the details. My limited knowledge of blender and how Uru works has me worried that soemthing I propose may be way to difficult to be implemented without months of work.

Either way, once things calm down political wise here, I am going to focus a lot on development. Hopefully I can pass on some organizational tips to make things run a bit easier around here, and facilitate creativity.

[GPNMilano]

To add to the conversation. When developing an age, if you want to in effect use the linking book as a way out rule, you can circumvent the option of them leaving the age via relto. The Bahro caves took advantage of this for instance. The only way to leave them was to jump through into the star fissure. Your Relto book was disabled upon link in, and couldn't be used to leave the age. This is accomplished via programming in python. Just something to consider, that its possible in URU to use the "only way to leave is via a linking book trapped behind a puzzle" element of an age.

Another way to engage in Uru, is something I have been developing for an age. The basic idea behind it is that, an accident occured in my age, years ago, and the ramifications of it is still being felt years later. To fix the problem, the explorer must travel (not with linking) between the past and present of an age, experiencing the events, as they unfolded, and the ramification of those events in present day. Picking up enough pieces to the overall mystery, till they reach the end of the story, at which point they must take the knowledge they have acquired in their quest to solve the final puzzle of the age, permamently seal the random gateways to the past, and learn the overall "lesson" behind the age.