A Sample.

[Pryftan]

I'd agree Kiril, but this piece wasn't really for the background of Eder Delin. It was just supposed to be inspired by it.

[Jojon]

...it's really good for midi..

I am terribly sorry to barge in with a load of nonsense here, but this is something of a pet peeve of mine. :P Please let's make a clear distinction between MIDI, the control protocol and GeneralMIDI, which is pretty much a standardised sound bank definition, for use as a least common denominator MIDI instrument, with some other limitations thrown in and tend to result in rather, uh, cheesy or stiff sounding results, for a number of reasons. "GM" is shorter than "MIDI" anyways... :9

Other, I don't see why a crescendo or two should not work in an age score. Cyans ages does have quite a few bombastic pieces, when you approach a particualrly stunning piece of scenery, especially if it's near the end of your journey through the age.

[Yali]

This is exactly what I was thinking. The cello would be perfect as an ostinato - repeating musical motif - but as Kiril said, the music should enhance the environment not, well, itself.

This issue is also that which I've come to notice as a difference between the Myst and Riven soundtracks and Uru. I've found that with the first two, the music was there only to *enhance* the visuals and the environments. In Uru and especially Myst V, the music felt much more pronounced in the gameplay, kind of like it was asking for attention. In short, Tim's style has always had much more of a linear - movielike quality. This is something I wish to avoid when it'll be our time to add content for Uru.

[bluewyvern]

I do concede that the "ambient vs cinematic music" question is to a degree a matter of personal taste, but my tastes do definitely align with Yali's on this one -- I much preferred Robyn's amelodical ambient themes to the cinematic orchestrations of Jack Wall or Tim Larkin, in the context of the game. Larkin is fine, and the soundtrack makes for nice listening; on Wall's score I was divided, liking the Age themes and hating the music during the dramatic Saavedro scenes. I'm something of a minimalist when it comes to game music, and for me the Riven soundtrack is the gold standard. The only thing I would add is that I really do like the broad palette of ethnic instruments used in Larkin's work -- I would just stick to simpler, repeating melodies.

(I know the piece we're discussing isn't meant as a game theme; I'm just discussing the issue in a more general sense now.)

[SteveDenton]

Thanks for the kind words, all.

How did you make that? its very nice.

This really is a nice little mood piece and its mixed pretty well, too. (just out of curiosity, what program(s) do you use?)

Sequenced from scratch in GarageBand 3 (with many custom sound banks in addition to what comes with the application).

The only 'critique' I have (and this has nothing to do with the quality of the music itself) is how well the music might adapt to a particular setting. The beginning of this piece is exactly right -- mood wise, musically and everything else -- to serve as background for the right sort of age setting. The latter part, where it builds up, while musically quite nice, changes the mood somewhat and if used in an actual setting, would tend to draw attention to itself. ONe of the hardest things, I think, in scoring for video or film is to create music that enhances the mood in a way that, well, nobody notices. An analogy would be the way a set designer creates the set design for a play: she wants to design a space in which all of the emotions, characters and story can be played out, but in a way that doesn't distract from the play itself.

I understand exactly what you're saying and you're quite correct, but as Pryftan pointed out, this was not strictly intended as a soundtrack piece. Of course, the nature of this forum demands soundtrack work and so it stands to reason that the piece would be evaluated as such; this was just the most appropriate sample of my musical work that I happen to have. I've scored films before—chinsy, budgetless, released-nowehere (and when you get right down to it, flat-out bad) student films mind you, but films all the same—and understand the necessities of fitting score to source material.

Games are a different beast of course, largely because they just aren't linear—at least not in the same way films are. Greater even-handedness is required (this is where Jack Wall sometimes misses the mark, as bluewyvern suggests). As for the minimalist Robyn Miller approach or the more soundscape-y style Tim Larkin's brought to the Myst franchise, I could go either way. Since both sound styles are (I think, anyway) part of the fan consciousness of "what Myst sounds like," I'd say that choosing one style or another would depend entirely on the feeling (or the desired feeling) of the age being scored. Does your age feel/do you want it to feel like Myst or Riven? Go minimal. Is your age more "real world-y" (like the cleft, the closest to the real world Myst has gotten so far, I think) or like the current Uru ages? Beef up the sound with constant background ambience as Tim Larkin does. The same thing applies to Jack Wall and Exile and Revelation, though I think those games aimed for a over-the-top cinematic quality that I don't think would mesh well with MOUL.

This approach might be seen as unnecessary limiting, but strategically employing the styles of all the official Myst franchise composers is a tactic/crutch I think it would be wise to employ, especially during the infancy of the Guild of Writers as it would make our work seem more credible in terms of the existing Myst universe.

[Kiril]

Thanks for the kind words, all.

Sequenced from scratch in GarageBand 3 (with many custom sound banks in addition to what comes with the application).

You did this with GarageBand? I'm more than impressed...astounded would be more like it!! I didn't think it possible to get that good a sound quality out of GB!!!

Games are a different beast of course, largely because they just aren't linear—at least not in the same way films are. Greater even-handedness is required (this is where Jack Wall sometimes misses the mark, as bluewyvern suggests). As for the minimalist Robyn Miller approach or the more soundscape-y style Tim Larkin's brought to the Myst franchise, I could go either way. Since both sound styles are (I think, anyway) part of the fan consciousness of "what Myst sounds like," I'd say that choosing one style or another would depend entirely on the feeling (or the desired feeling) of the age being scored. Does your age feel/do you want it to feel like Myst or Riven? Go minimal. Is your age more "real world-y" (like the cleft, the closest to the real world Myst has gotten so far, I think) or like the current Uru ages? Beef up the sound with constant background ambience as Tim Larkin does. The same thing applies to Jack Wall and Exile and Revelation, though I think those games aimed for a over-the-top cinematic quality that I don't think would mesh well with MOUL.

Good analysis and I agree. The balance between actual ambient noises (like we currently experience in Ae'Gura, for example) and music bed (like the one in our Reltos), is a tough act. Ambient noises can add realism for sure -- wind in trees, birds, clanks, crickets, etc) but ambient background music isn't something we experience in real life, except in controlled environments like an elevator, the mall or the Dentists office. So the trick is creating the exact mood to evoke emotional response to the age without having in stand out from the other ambience. But, hey, we're up to the challenge, right?

This approach might be seen as unnecessary limiting, but strategically employing the styles of all the official Myst franchise composers is a tactic/crutch I think it would be wise to employ, especially during the infancy of the Guild of Writers as it would make our work seem more credible in terms of the existing Myst universe.

Good point and Iagree.

[belford]

And here I was thinking that, to gain credibility, we should do things that have never been done before in the Myst universe. We'll have to do them really well, of course...

(In reality, we're going to explore both extremes, and everything in between.)

[SteveDenton]

And here I was thinking that, to gain credibility, we should do things that have never been done before in the Myst universe. We'll have to do them really well, of course...

In terms of gameplay twists/mechanics, I agree, but when you get right down to it, (I think that) it still has to feel like Myst in order to be accepted. Because the responsibility of music is to create and maintain a feel, I think it would be wise to make sure it meshes well with at least some of the Myst franchise music we know and love.

In other words, I'd say experimentation should occur on a more fundamental level than surface traits like music, while the surface traits would fit well with the existing MOUL aesthetic.

[Kiril]

And here I was thinking that, to gain credibility, we should do things that have never been done before in the Myst universe. We'll have to do them really well, of course...

In terms of gameplay twists/mechanics, I agree, but when you get right down to it, (I think that) it still has to feel like Myst in order to be accepted. Because the responsibility of music is to create and maintain a feel, I think it would be wise to make sure it meshes well with at least some of the Myst franchise music we know and love.

In other words, I'd say experimentation should occur on a more fundamental level than surface traits like music, while the surface traits would fit well with the existing MOUL aesthetic.

I agree with Steve here. Myst in all its forms is a certain genre and the music beds they use fit with that genre. We aren't creating a new genre, but creating new forms within the genre. If we violate the genre, then players won't feel like they're engaging with a Myst world, but something completely different.

[belford]

Sounds great. :)