Community Nexus

[kaelisebonrai]

Actually you updated it to reflect your own thoughts - nobody else ever agreed to putting *all* fan-content to this Nexus, quite the opposite. The first option you shortened so much that it got incorrect (it has to be "all non-D'ni Fan Ages"). So I reverted that part of your changes.

The Shard discussion is really a completely independent topic.

No one seems to be really advertising the idea of a new GUI in Cyan's Nexus, and we really need to make a firm decision on this whole design thing so we can start on the next step (designing the Age).

Note that the few people with the skills to implement that... Don't like the idea. Chloe's pretty much said she doesn't want to do that, and as the person implementing the GUIs, etc... She makes the decisions. Unless someone with proven experience at doing GUIs wants to stand up and offer their experience... It has pretty much already been decided. =P

[GPNMilano]

Sorry I've been incommunicado the last couple of weeks. I had a death in the family that took precedence for a bit. But things have settled so to answer a few things from MY opinion.

No one seems to be really advertising the idea of a new GUI in Cyan's Nexus, and we really need to make a firm decision on this whole design thing so we can start on the next step (designing the Age).

Really the design of the actual nexus is moot. It can be done rather quickly as it's a very small area. I could probably model/texture it within a few days. It doesn't need to be large and massive. It's a Nexus. They're rather small, and minimalistic. What needs a design is the gui for the community Nexus. That's what diafero's going to need to start python scripting the brain for the gui.

And for the record, the reason there was discussion of the Nexi in the first place is because of a need. The GUI for the Cyan Nexus is overloaded with fan ages. You can't dump 100 ages into a place with very little orginizational structure and expect it to look good. Redoing the Cyan GUI so that it has orginization would require rewriting/tweaking the existing python for it. Which if you ever look at it is a complete mess. It's a wonder Diafero was able to keep it as organized as it currently is. Keeping the fan ages in a seperate Nexus (Dni locaitons not withstanding) allows for orginzation, a cleaner python script for diafero to work on (he'd be writing it, so he can make it whatever he prefers that will allow future work) Plus, as Robert pointed out, in the future it could serve as a bridge between MOUL/DIRTSand/Alcugs. If Cyan wishes to cooperate and use it in such a manner. Currently we download through Drizzle or through independent websites like Tweek and Whilyam offer their work. However, in the future a nexus we created and maintain could be used (if the programming can be nailed down) to allow us to actually download ages in game, similar to how we do do it online. But thats long in the future, and if it was actually possible to do.

[nathan2055]

Sorry I've been incommunicado the last couple of weeks. I had a death in the family that took precedence for a bit. But things have settled so to answer a few things from MY opinion.

No one seems to be really advertising the idea of a new GUI in Cyan's Nexus, and we really need to make a firm decision on this whole design thing so we can start on the next step (designing the Age).

Really the design of the actual nexus is moot. It can be done rather quickly as it's a very small area. I could probably model/texture it within a few days. It doesn't need to be large and massive. It's a Nexus. They're rather small, and minimalistic. What needs a design is the gui for the community Nexus. That's what diafero's going to need to start python scripting the brain for the gui.

And for the record, the reason there was discussion of the Nexi in the first place is because of a need. The GUI for the Cyan Nexus is overloaded with fan ages. You can't dump 100 ages into a place with very little orginizational structure and expect it to look good. Redoing the Cyan GUI so that it has orginization would require rewriting/tweaking the existing python for it. Which if you ever look at it is a complete mess. It's a wonder Diafero was able to keep it as organized as it currently is. Keeping the fan ages in a seperate Nexus (Dni locaitons not withstanding) allows for orginzation, a cleaner python script for diafero to work on (he'd be writing it, so he can make it whatever he prefers that will allow future work) Plus, as Robert pointed out, in the future it could serve as a bridge between MOUL/DIRTSand/Alcugs. If Cyan wishes to cooperate and use it in such a manner. Currently we download through Drizzle or through independent websites like Tweek and Whilyam offer their work. However, in the future a nexus we created and maintain could be used (if the programming can be nailed down) to allow us to actually download ages in game, similar to how we do do it online. But thats long in the future, and if it was actually possible to do.

Yes, I agree with everything you have said, especially the part about moving Fan D'ni Locations. We will need to restructure Cyan's Nexus eventually, but that's a different project. If everyone agrees, let's move forward!

[kaelisebonrai]

Yes, I agree with everything you have said, especially the part about moving Fan D'ni Locations. We will need to restructure Cyan's Nexus eventually, but that's a different project. If everyone agrees, let's move forward!

Errr... Except Chloe didn't say we'd move the fan d'ni locations. She said we wouldn't.

On top of that, there's no reason we can't rip out the cyan GUI entirely, fix it, and do completely new python for it too. That would, in fact, be easier than designing a /new/ nexus with a new GUI.

We could still use a new GUI, we still wouldn't need to support Cyan's python, we'd still need to do a new bit of python for the GUI... But no new age needed. And as there's no intent to have server traversal in any project, there's no need to plan for it, and that's assuming it's possible. It would take a rework of bits of cyan's servers for them to support it, and afaik, zrax doesn't intend to support it... So why design for something that isn't happening?

[diafero]

Well then Chloe, I can start coding once you tell me how the Python File Mod interface looks like

[nathan2055]

Yes, I agree with everything you have said, especially the part about moving Fan D'ni Locations. We will need to restructure Cyan's Nexus eventually, but that's a different project. If everyone agrees, let's move forward!

Errr... Except Chloe didn't say we'd move the fan d'ni locations. She said we wouldn't.

On top of that, there's no reason we can't rip out the cyan GUI entirely, fix it, and do completely new python for it too. That would, in fact, be easier than designing a /new/ nexus with a new GUI.

We could still use a new GUI, we still wouldn't need to support Cyan's python, we'd still need to do a new bit of python for the GUI... But no new age needed. And as there's no intent to have server traversal in any project, there's no need to plan for it, and that's assuming it's possible. It would take a rework of bits of cyan's servers for them to support it, and afaik, zrax doesn't intend to support it... So why design for something that isn't happening?

The dictionary says "withstand means to remain unaffected by". Chloe said "d'ni locations not withstanding". Thus, "not withstanding" = "not unaffected by" which means they would be moved. Besides, not moving D'ni Locations means recoding Cyan's Nexus. We can't do that at this stage in time. If we simply moved them we could save a lot of trouble (and stop arguing)!

[GPNMilano]

Thus, "not withstanding" = "not unaffected by" which means they would be moved. Besides, not moving D'ni Locations means recoding Cyan's Nexus. We can't do that at this stage in time. If we simply moved them we could save a lot of trouble (and stop arguing)!

Not unaffected by would be a double negative. In this context it's used properly. The D'ni locations are to be left in the Cyan Nexus. Removing them (they are the only ages of their type that would do this) would break the IC story that Cyan created for the Nexus. The Nexus at the fall of D'ni was a age used for mass transit within D'ni. Hence Fan D'ni locations should remain in this Nexus BECAUSE of an IC reason. While it may seem like a lot of trouble I'd rather keep the IC ness of what Cyan's Nexus was intended for, even if it means putting in a little extra work to recode a portion of the nexus for this. I'd rather break continuity only when necessary then to do it on a whim simply because it's easy to do. (IE: The GZ book in the Neighborhoods.) Leaving that book in the Neighborhood's pissed off some people who care about IC. I'd rather put in a little work to retain the story than not retain story just because it'll save time and energy. The story is what matters most of all in this instance.

[nathan2055]

Thus, "not withstanding" = "not unaffected by" which means they would be moved. Besides, not moving D'ni Locations means recoding Cyan's Nexus. We can't do that at this stage in time. If we simply moved them we could save a lot of trouble (and stop arguing)!

Not unaffected by would be a double negative. In this context it's used properly. The D'ni locations are to be left in the Cyan Nexus. Removing them (they are the only ages of their type that would do this) would break the IC story that Cyan created for the Nexus. The Nexus at the fall of D'ni was a age used for mass transit within D'ni. Hence Fan D'ni locations should remain in this Nexus BECAUSE of an IC reason. While it may seem like a lot of trouble I'd rather keep the IC ness of what Cyan's Nexus was intended for, even if it means putting in a little extra work to recode a portion of the nexus for this. I'd rather break continuity only when necessary then to do it on a whim simply because it's easy to do. (IE: The GZ book in the Neighborhoods.) Leaving that book in the Neighborhood's pissed off some people who care about IC. I'd rather put in a little work to retain the story than not retain story just because it'll save time and energy. The story is what matters most of all in this instance.

First of all, building a Nexus GUI is a tad tougher than writing up a patch for that book, which could be done in a few seconds. Secondly, how could moving the Fan D'ni Locations to a different Nexus we have written break IC stories? With some time, I could think up an IC story to get the job done. Anyway, people would be doing a lot of linking with this idea (especially people who didn't realize an Age was part of the cavern instead of it's own Age, as not everyone sits and reads all the journals), it'd make it a lot easier on the general public to move the Fan D'ni Locations.

[GPNMilano]

First of all, building a Nexus GUI is a tad tougher than writing up a patch for that book, which could be done in a few seconds. Secondly, how could moving the Fan D'ni Locations to a different Nexus we have written break IC stories? With some time, I could think up an IC story to get the job done. Anyway, people would be doing a lot of linking with this idea (especially people who didn't realize an Age was part of the cavern instead of it's own Age, as not everyone sits and reads all the journals), it'd make it a lot easier on the general public to move the Fan D'ni Locations.

The IC story of the Nexus is that it was a transportation hub, used by the D'ni to travel within the cavern. It was created for that express purpose. THAT is how it was introduced. The entire idea that it was used as some massive linking machine for every age under the sun is just silly. It was intended to be used for transport within D'ni. Which is why it's categories reflect this. OOC it was used by Cyan as a invite system into other people's private ages. But seeing as how nothing in canon suggests that there was instances prior to Uru, it's safe to assume that instancing came along as a result of Yeesha magic. Yeesha and the Bahro were used by Cyan to explain away the mistakes in the canon that arrised from a OOC gameplay necessity. That is the story element I do not wish to break, what the Nexus was intended for, transportation within D'ni.

However if you want a few of the other important reasons here they are in no particular order:

By moving the Fan D'ni Locations to that the Community Nexus two things will have happened.

1. Since all fan created content will would now be hosted in one spot that is seperate from Cyan content, it looks like a barrier is being erected between what is fan and what is cyan content. Creating barriers, other than the ones to block avatars from going places they shouldn't, is not something I wish to see happen. So by keeping Fan Created D'ni locations within the Cyan Nexus we serve two purposes: a. Non seperation of what is fan and what is Cyan made. and b. The Cyan Nexus still remains the central hub for transporation with the Cavern itself.

2. You will now have a stripped down Cyan Nexus with few links within it, and a overbloated Communty Nexus with too many links in it. Remember there are more fan ages than there are Cyan ones. By the end of the year there will probably about 10 times more. By seperating them out using the above method (D'ni VS all other ages) it allows for both Nexus's to be sufficiently full without being too over cluttered, and it keeps a important IC story element secure.

[Egon]

Actually you updated it to reflect your own thoughts - nobody else ever agreed to putting *all* fan-content to this Nexus, quite the opposite.

Just for the record:
@diafero: You didn't read full thread properly. I also was behind the idea of putting fan content in separate Nexus (and I still don't understand why people see it as creating a barrier between fan and cyan content). But as I saw most of people directly involved was against it, I accept it and just stop advertising it.
@nathan2055: Accept the fact that most people here don't want such separation of Cyan content form Fan content and move on.

Simple fix. Make "Explorable" "Labyrinth" instead.

Labyrinth might be good category to add (there are couple of age which would fit it) but is in no way substitute for Explorable on every occasion (there are quite a lot large outdoor ages which would just not fit "Labyrinth").

Personally I don't think we need a second nexus, the GUI on Cyan's just needs updating/fixing.

I would like to have two Nexuses, but I just came to realization that I would like that mostly out of nostalgic reasons (Nexus Age is one of few things which I associate with URU). That's why I liked Chloe vision of Nexuses: it was internally coherent, and allowed to remain original D'ni Nexus.
Also I would like to see here new content being added instead of replacing old one, which is another reason I like two Nexuses idea.