Escher's Relativity is doable

If you feel like you're up to the challenge of building your own Ages in Blender or 3ds Max, this is the place for you!

Re: Escher's Relativity is doable

Postby Sirius » Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:57 am

Very good work ! That's the kind of visual quality I like. I just wish I were patient enough to get such good visual quality in my own Ages...
Well done. /bow

When I look at your tree, I wonder how hard it would be to add a particle emitter to make falling leaves....

Ainia wrote:Has any thought been given to submitting this as a Fan addition to the MOULa server?? I know that Sevkor isn't yet ready for deployment as a Fan Age nexus, but Relativity would make an incredible first addition there...
I doubt that's going to happen. Visually, it's really nice, but (as far as I know) the first person camera is still almost unusable :cry: . Unless someone manages to fix the way Plasma handles subworlds.
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Re: Escher's Relativity is doable

Postby Acorn » Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:01 am

gorgeous! I know this has been a labour of love for so many people; congrats to you all! :D
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Re: Escher's Relativity is doable

Postby Seppolo » Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:47 am

Terrific!

Tachzusamm ... I'm Already looking forward to exploring the new version.
:)

And to see you again soon. ;)
„Myst will never forgotten“

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Re: Escher's Relativity is doable

Postby Dulcamara » Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:50 am

Congratulations Tach
truly extraordinary.
This quality I will probably never arrive with my ages. :cry:
Unfortunately, I have no backgrund to create my one Alcscripte and Phytoncodes :idea:
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Re: Escher's Relativity is doable

Postby Ehren » Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:35 pm

I think the best choice would be to force Uru to stay in 3rd person while in Relativity (since 1st person doesn't work correctly there anyway.)

It should be possible to put something in the Python that would disable using the F1 key as soon as you link into the age, right? And that would also switch you to 3rd person if you link into Relativity ALREADY in 1st. It would also have to be able to re-enable the 1st person option once you link out, though.


But, anyway, it does look amazing. That really brings it out of the black void of the old version!
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Re: Escher's Relativity is doable

Postby tachzusamm » Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:06 am

Ehren wrote:I think the best choice would be to force Uru to stay in 3rd person while in Relativity (since 1st person doesn't work correctly there anyway.)

Some words about the Relativity first-person mode.
I know that it's not working perfectly, but at least you *can* switch to a mode similar to it, to view details from a close-up or to look up and down.
See, it's not really a first-person mode. That original mode is REALLY screwed up, you would get a rotated view. I already run a detection when a user tries to switch to 1st person, then I reject it and switch to a second avatar camera which is actually in front of your face, and which allows you to pitch. Yaw is blocked for this type of camera, because yaw and pitch are somehow exchanged in plasma when you're in a rotated subworld. So I at least allow you to pitch using the mouse yaw action.
Actually, I made a lot of efforts to give players the option to at least use some of the full feature set.

Ehren wrote:It should be possible to put something in the Python that would disable using the F1 key as soon as you link into the age, right? And that would also switch you to 3rd person if you link into Relativity ALREADY in 1st. It would also have to be able to re-enable the 1st person option once you link out, though.

Of course that would be possible. I'm already blocking real first-person mode and replace it with a dedicated camera described above, but I'm not a friend of imposing my will on the player. If the player decides to use that simulated 1st person mode although it's not working as in other ages, then he should be able to. Everybody not liking it is free in decision to not use it.

But the recommended mode for Relativity is of course 3rd person.
Maybe we should put a signboard somewhere? :?

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/k-12/airpla ... tions.html

viewtopic.php?p=55212#p55212
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Re: Escher's Relativity is doable

Postby Calena » Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:33 am

Ehren wrote:I think the best choice would be to force Uru to stay in 3rd person while in Relativity (since 1st person doesn't work correctly there anyway.)



Thank you for sharing your opinion. My opinion is that we should leave it the way it is and give people a choice. I personally would not be happy if the option to press F1 and "zoom" in to get a better view of something were taken away. But that's just my opinion, FWIW.
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Re: Escher's Relativity is doable

Postby Sirius » Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:50 am

I've been looking in some ways to get the mouse motion in Python (which would help fixing the first person camera), but it's absolutely impossible with the current Plasma API.


There is another solution, though.
Some Python packages allow you to get the mouse position directly from the OS. This means you could poll this function every 1/60 seconds, calculate the relative motion, and rotate the avatar/camera accordingly. It's tricky and hacky, but it would work.
The problem is, how to make this library available with the current Python included in Plasma ?

(From now on, these are just assumptions. I have no idea whether it could work, because I never messed up with it)

I wanted to place the library's PYD in Uru's Python folder (which should make it available to scripts). I downloaded the library (win32api), but there is no pyd included. It's supposed to be installed by running setup.py with the appropriate Python interpreter... Which should build the library and install it to the Python version you're using to execute the script. Unfortunately, no matter what I do, there is always an error, or missing file that prevents installing.



On a side-note (but that's quite important to me), if we could make it work, we could even design a hack that would allow free mouse movement in first person through the whole game, so you wouldn't have to hold the right mouse button.
It might not sound important, but this is something I wanted to do the very first minute I started playing Uru :P .
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Re: Escher's Relativity is doable

Postby Deledrius » Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:05 pm

Sirius wrote:
Ainia wrote:Has any thought been given to submitting this as a Fan addition to the MOULa server?? I know that Sevkor isn't yet ready for deployment as a Fan Age nexus, but Relativity would make an incredible first addition there...
I doubt that's going to happen. Visually, it's really nice, but (as far as I know) the first person camera is still almost unusable :cry: . Unless someone manages to fix the way Plasma handles subworlds.

What seems to be the problem? Is it something we can get a bug report open on?


Sirius wrote:On a side-note (but that's quite important to me), if we could make it work, we could even design a hack that would allow free mouse movement in first person through the whole game, so you wouldn't have to hold the right mouse button.
It might not sound important, but this is something I wanted to do the very first minute I started playing Uru :P .

I imagine you mean something like the mouse control in Myst 5? Free look until you click out to interact? That would be nice, and in theory should be fairly easily doable in most cases (I suspect at least something will break, somewhere. It always does). It would be interesting to make first-person in Uru a full-fledged navigation method, instead of just third-person with a camera in your head.
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Re: Escher's Relativity is doable

Postby Ehren » Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:38 pm

Calena wrote:Thank you for sharing your opinion. My opinion is that we should leave it the way it is and give people a choice. I personally would not be happy if the option to press F1 and "zoom" in to get a better view of something were taken away. But that's just my opinion, FWIW.


Don't get me wrong, I like using first person a lot, I'm in first person almost all the time, but I just figured having no first person is better than having one that just serves to confuse players and fails to allow you to look up close at things since it's too hard to navigate and is oriented wrong. You say people should have "a choice" and I agree BUT my perspective was that they already, in a sense, didn't have the choice anyway, since first person didn't behave as first person.

(Well now that I think about it, I just remembered first person does actually work correctly when you are truly lined with the "real" up of the age.)

However if I understand tachzusamm correctly then it sounds like he is working on something that makes first person work at least a bit better? Obviously that's a much more ideal option if it can be done.

I really thought, at the time, it would just be a helpful tip for making things feel more "polished". I didn't see it as "imposing will on players" anymore than trying to work around any other unfortunate glitches.

Deledrius wrote:I imagine you mean something like the mouse control in Myst 5? Free look until you click out to interact? That would be nice, and in theory should be fairly easily doable in most cases (I suspect at least something will break, somewhere. It always does). It would be interesting to make first-person in Uru a full-fledged navigation method, instead of just third-person with a camera in your head.


Well as long as one can still have an option for "classic Uru mode" or something. I actually LIKE the navigation system of using right click to move around the view. That way when I'm not holding the right mouse button I can move the cursor anywhere on the screen and not mess up my view, this especially helps for taking pictures/screen captures.
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