Linking Book mystery.... help needed

[D'Lanor]

Hmm, but the Programmers section has this description...

Python scripters wanted! Help bring our custom Ages to life! Share tips and tricks, as well as code samples with other developers.

I thought the tutorials section was for Blender related stuff?

[andylegate]

You know.........and this is something that has been slowly creeping up on me, and just now hit me over the head.

How many of us out there are going it alone? And then how many of us out there are working as a team?

Here is what I'm getting at:
It is entirely possible for a single person to create an Age. We all know this. If you can learn how to use Blender, create or apply free textures, follow enough tutorials on scripting.......nothing can stop you. The more time and care you spend on your Age, the better it will turn out and look.
We know this if you simply take a look at all the different Ages that fans have submitted so far, and I have. Every one that I can get my hands on.
I've seen Ages that look very, very noobish. And I have seen Ages that are getting close to toeing the line with Cyan.
My own Camp Bravo Age got a lot of kuddous from people. It's not near anything like a Cyan Age of course, but a LOT of people were surprised at how good it did look considering it was only my second attempt at making an Age, and the fact that prior to November, I had NEVER laid my hands on Blender, and Python to me is a large snake that lives in the tropics!

But, if you sit and think about it, what if you had several people? Someone that knows Python in and out. A Blender expert. A texture expert, etc. Put them together, and you'll get some very outstanding Ages, with little or no questions that are being asked.

Now look at this forum. Look at how it's laid out. It almost looks like everyone assumes that you will only have people like that. Someone that only builds with Blender. Someone that all they do is scripting.

So then you get someone like me, or Kierra, or Jennifer, or several other people. We're trying to do it all ourselves. So we expect that others are too.
So when we go to find tutorials on Age Building, we expect to find them there in a nice, neat package.
Tutorials on using Blender.
Tutorials on Creating Ages in Blender.
Tutorials on Scripting for Ages.
All under one heading of: Tutorials for Age Creation.

Our logic is not flawed. Not by a long shot. We are Writers that are having to do it all ourselves, so we expect to find that resources in one spot to access.
Not spread out all over this forum (and other forums on the internet).

And to make matters worse, sometimes we're not sure what we're trying to do is called exactly, or where it is. So we use the screwed up Search function on this forum that consistantly tells you that your word or words are too common "please try again."
We don't always have the time to read through every single forum on here. Heck, I don't understand HALF of what is being talking about in the Programmers forum.
But not understanding, is not the same as, not being able to do something.
I can be trained like a monkey and copy something just fine. So cutting and pasting my information in a script file is fine.

That is if I can FIND what I'm looking for.

In anycase, there are many of us that are trying to create Ages, that have to scan through several differnt forums on here, trying to find the answers. There are many of us that don't do just Coding, and many that just don't do Blenering either. We're trying to do it all.
And don't say it's impossible. For those of you that say it is, I'd suggest you download some of these Ages that have been made by some of us soloists and give us a fair shake.
I think some of us have done pretty darn good work in a very short amount of time.

I think that some of us could do it even better if we could find the answers to our questions or the knowledge we seek faster, instead of wasting time having to search...........

[boblishman]

OK..... so....to summarise the current situation regarding creating Linking Books within Ages: (Please correct me if I am wrong)

1) Alcugs has (i.e.) the only tutorial on creating Age Linking books ... and that uses the uam script which is currently distributed with the ULM client ... however... that (uam) script also needs an updated UruAgeManager.int file ... and that file is not automatically generated by the ULM client ... and therefore any age using this method (uam) for creating linking books will not work if distibuted via the ULM Library ...

urgo ... this method of creating Linking books is completely useless for ages that are going to be distributed via the ULM Library(ies) (and the tutorial should be removed from Alcugs, saving people wasting time making journals using this method!)

2) The only other published method of creating a linking book is currently the post: Dynamic Book Template by D'Lanor, which, whilst I am sure it is easy to understand for experienced programmers, is very difficult for newbies (like myself) to even begin to understand. (This is NOT a crticism of D'Lanor's post ... it was made in the programmers section of this site and therefore aimed at programmers) ...

urgo ... there is currently no way for a non-experienced programmer to create a linking book in an age that is intended to be distributed via the ULM Library(ies)




As I have already spent two days of completely wasted time trying to find the answer to a problem whose answer simply created a 'dead-end' for my linking books, I may as well spend the next two days trying to work out exactly what to use and how to use D'Lanor´s scripts ... (I too am grateful to you D'Lanor for writing these ... if only I could use them ... )

I am MORE than happy to write a full picture tutorial for using these scripts if I can actually figure out HOW to use them (and I will write a tutorial if I do manage to) ... so, D'Lanor, would you prefer me to write to you via pm with my questions or post them to the original thread ? (I am trying to avoid confusion for other creators and I'm wondering if perhaps it's best not to generate a large thread that may put off potential users of the scripts, i.e. if you can explain some things to me, and I understand them and am able to make a working Linking book using your scripts, then I can write the tutorial from a 'newbie' perspective to help other new creators to use your scripts)


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However, upcoming python support should allow for using cyan's python files for this kind of stuff

Again, I am sure that this means something very significant ... but what exactly does it mean ? ... and how 'upcoming' is upcoming? .
If it means what I think it means (that there wil be a prp script available in Blender to generate a Linking book or Journal or Letter) then what kind of timescale are we talking about ???
(because if it's a matter of a few weeks then writing the tutorial for D'Lanors scripts will be another waste of my time ... however, if it's going to be months, then I'm more than happy to go ahead and write them...)

So then you get someone like me, or Kierra, or Jennifer, [EDIT: or BobLishman] or several other people. We're trying to do it all ourselves. So we expect that others are too.
So when we go to find tutorials on Age Building, we expect to find them there in a nice, neat package.
Tutorials on using Blender.
Tutorials on Creating Ages in Blender.
Tutorials on Scripting for Ages.
All under one heading of: Tutorials for Age Creation.

I totally agree Andy. It´s hard to image any age creator building an age with no journals, no linking books or no conditoinal objects.
(I also assumed that the programmers section of the forum was for programmers to discuss and share new 'discoveries' or methods or just new facts about the coding, rather than tutorials on 'simple' coding that is NEEDED in (relatively basic) age creation.

Furthermore, I have appealed several times for a collaborator-codewriter (but with no success ) as it is not a part of the age creation process that I really enjoy, but I realise is essential for an age to be 'playable' ... the only reason I am currently 'working alone' is because I can't find a coder who wants to join me ...

It does seem strange that most other areas of creation (music, storyline, texturing, modelling etc) all have people volunteering their services to become involved with age creation ... what is it about coding that makes it so 'different' that there are no volunteers ? ... it's as vital a part of age creation as any of the others ... and, in some ways, more so ... (hmmm, maybe that's what it is )

[Trylon]

urgo ... this method of creating Linking books is completely useless for ages that are going to be distributed via the ULM Library(ies) (and the tutorial should be removed from Alcugs, saving people wasting time making journals using this method!)

Actually, I just removed that tutorial to avoid confusion.

urgo ... there is currently no way for a non-experienced programmer to create a linking book in an age that is intended to be distributed via the ULM Library(ies)

That is an issue that does need fixing. I'm confident that the improved game logic exporter of pyprp will be able to handle cyan's own way of linking to an age, but I have not been able to test that - and I'm hoping some of the people who are really into these things will be able to help out in that regard.

However, upcoming python support should allow for using cyan's python files for this kind of stuff

Again, I am sure that this means something very significant ... but what exactly does it mean ? ... and how 'upcoming' is upcoming? .
If it means what I think it means (that there wil be a prp script available in Blender to generate a Linking book or Journal or Letter) then what kind of timescale are we talking about ???
(because if it's a matter of a few weeks then writing the tutorial for D'Lanors scripts will be another waste of my time ... however, if it's going to be months, then I'm more than happy to go ahead and write them...)

The support for it is ready in the verion of PyPRP that will be available for download this weekend.
What paradox meant was that cyan already has python scripts in place for linking to ages, etc, but we weren't able to easily link to them from within PyPRP.
Now, we can - at least power-users can - who will share the script with users, and after that, a quickscript can be made, making it as easy as setting a logic property or alcscript value

I totally agree Andy. It´s hard to image any age creator building an age with no journals, no linking books or no conditoinal objects.
(I also assumed that the programmers section of the forum was for programmers to discuss and share new 'discoveries' or methods or just new facts about the coding, rather than tutorials on 'simple' coding that is NEEDED in (relatively basic) age creation.

Well, to be honest "simple coding", approaches complex coding quite well, when you are talking about coding for uru. The python system they use is a bit unorthodox.
Of course, I am talking about the code we had to write with the limited python support we used to have. Now that we can use Cyan's interfaces from within pyprp, things should become quite a bit easier.

Furthermore, I have appealed several times for a collaborator-codewriter (but with no success ) as it is not a part of the age creation process that I really enjoy, but I realize is essential for an age to be 'playable' ... the only reason I am currently 'working alone' is because I can't find a coder who wants to join me ...

That may be because there are few who really understand the python scripting - I myself for example, could not help you with age scripting until I were to dive into that python code again. There are people present in the GoW however, who have a considerable bit of uru-python experience, and I'm hoping that they will be helping to write tutorials for it.

[andylegate]

Hey!

Uhm, this is directed to the Forum Admin.....

Could we change the white background color on quotes?? It makes reading any text in certain colors (like yellow) VERY hard to read, etc.

[Chacal]

It does seem strange that most other areas of creation (music, storyline, texturing, modelling etc) all have people volunteering their services to become involved with age creation ... what is it about coding that makes it so 'different' that there are no volunteers ?

I'd say it's because most people right now are scrambling to learn the basics. What we see on the forums is people willing to help with a skill as soon as they learn that skill. For instance, I wrote a tutorial on colliders as soon as I figured them out. I'm preparing a quest about them after learning more. But I haven't learned anything else yet, so I'm useless when people call for help on, say, texturing. I'm pretty good (I think) at writing tutorials, but I need to know what I'm talking about.

Very few writers have progressed to the scripting stage. Those who have hacked their way in 3 years ago are, well, hackers. They will try to help you but good hackers aren't often good teachers. They will tell you "Use this [pasted block of code]" but it's frustrating because you have no idea what to do with the code. I guess that's the part you have to learn on your own.