Escher's Relativity is doable

[Ainia]

Shorah again and happy post-holiday, pre-Gehn party to everyone!

Regarding the love seat photo, I assume the lighting will be fixed in a later post-beta release? It's kinda strange to turn on the lamp and see the room brighten but for me (my avvie) to remain shadowy.

Also, has the ability to look up/down been turned off or is this a bug?? I am seeing this peculiarity on both DI and in my offline version. Just wondering...

[tachzusamm]

Regarding the love seat photo, I assume the lighting will be fixed in a later post-beta release? It's kinda strange to turn on the lamp and see the room brighten but for me (my avvie) to remain shadowy.

It's planned to be extented in functionality, yes. If you allow, I would like to explain why I don't like the word "fixing" in this case.

If you have a gearing mechanism, one can probably "fix" it by putting some oil into it, or by removing something that blocks it. That's what fixing is: Repairing something that already has everything needed to work properly, but is blocked somehow.
But assume you have an arbor (or bower), which isn't lit by electric bulbs yet. You decide to integrate some; you begin to put a cable from your house to the arbor, make holes through the wall to let the cable through, use cement to fill the holes once the cable is in, then you begin to make electrical connections of the cable to the fuse block in your house, you also mount a light switch in your arbor, you mount a lamp, interconnect everything, and voila, the electric light in the arbor works.
Would you call this "fixing" the light? Would that describe all the work you've done well?

Just to give an impression how lighting of rooms in Relativity works, I would like to explain it more detailed.

Let's take the control room (the one with the round windows) for example. Because this would look ugly, lighting of the walls is not done using dynamic lighting (Plasma doesn't do a good job here); instead, all lighting - except the lighting of the avatar - is made with lightmaps. This means, every level of light (dark because not lit, bright because lit by a lamp or from outside) needs its own lighmap.
There are different levels of light each wall can receive / reflect.

First level is, when it's night outside. In this case, I blend in a quite dark lightmap, because the walls don't receive much light.
Second level is, when the room is lit from outside (daylight). This uses a second, brighter lightmap.
The third level comes into play when you turn on the lamp in the room; this is the brightest lightmap.
So, we have 3 different lightmaps to handle properly. And the light does not switch abruptly, it fades instead softly from one lightmap to another (because I wanted it to work this way). Lot of scripting involved here, not just a boolean switch. And of course each lightmap has to be rendered separately, because not only the brightness varies, but locations where shadows fall as well. Obviously, because the lamps are different in location (bulb and windows).
The Blender file needs different lamps only for this room to get the different light setup renderend. Those lamps are not exported.

Then there's another lamp (which IS exported) - and this lamp serves the purpose of lighting the avatar. If you watch carefully how this lamp behaves in the control room, you will realize that this lamp fades as well softly, like a dimmer, not like a switch. Again some scripting.

And if you really do look closely to everything, you will also note that the reflectiveness of the window glasses change accordingly to the light intensity. When it's dark, the glasses seem nearly unvisible (like real glasses do too, because when the surroundings are dark, glass doesn't have something to reflect), and when there's light, the glasses show a subtle shimmer on the surface. Needless to say that's scripted as well, because I wanted it to appear as realistic as possible. And, of course, inner and outer side of the glass are handled separately.

To carry all this to extremes, there are two versions of the control room - one is used for the "normal" state, when all floor and wall tiles have a beige color tone - the other is used for the red/blue/beige version of the Age. The rooms are visually exchanged accordingly to the proper state. Each of those two versions have 3 different lighmaps attached.

That said, yes, I can make the lamp in the sofa room light the avatar accordlingly to the lightmaps as well. I just need to add another lamp, adjust the parameters, connect it to some scripting and the switch logic, do some testing, and adjust / export again (and again) until I'm pleased. Needs some time to "fix" it. It's just not finished to add all avatar lamps in all rooms yet.


I think it's generally a problem when you build an Age too perfect. People tend to take everything as for granted when it looks too realistic (because nature does it the same way).
Plasma is a really old engine; nearly nothing works automagically.
Even in newer games, with brilliant and absolutely stunning graphics, I often experience that the players don't even realize how wonderful the surroundings look, how smooth it behaves, and how fantastic the lighting is set up. They just play the game, are interested in levelling up, collect items, and cannot imagine the work the developers had. They run through leaves as if the don't see them, and they never take a look at a tree's bark. The newer the game, the most they complain about bugs. I never get this, maybe because I'm a game developer now as well and know what's behind.

Don't get me wrong. I'm really happy that I can build Ages with this old engine, because it's such a good feeling when you create something never seen even with an engine so old, and noone expected it to be possible.
In case I sounded harsh: Not my intention. Really. It's just that I'm not good in finding polite words for conversation; english is not my mother tongue. I'm happy that I can explain at least technical stuff a bit - and that's what I wanted to do. To give everybody some insight in how Relativity lighting works.

So I just took the word "fix" as a hook to start with discussing some technical stuff.

[Acorn]

Tachzusamm, this was a really interesting post - as you say, people (like me) who don't know what underpins an age like Relativity will take its (less apparent) wonders for granted. It's good to be able to give proper acknowledgement to the work that has gone into it! Thank you for explaining it so well. And congratulations again to everyone who has contributed to Relativity so far. I say this with even more awe than before!

[janaba]

Wow!!! Thank you, tach, for explaining this all so extensively and in such a detail ... I sooo feel what you wanted to express, and I know a little bit of that arduous and painstaiking precision job from my being with German age builders a few years back and from what I experience and see here and in all those fan ages, though this is what I myself sensed lol, when listening and testing sometimes all through the night even ... they are doing that with all dedication and passion etc. ...

You've given a good explanation with this paragraph

I think it's generally a problem when you build an Age too perfect. People tend to take everything as for granted when it looks too realistic (because nature does it the same way).
Plasma is a really old engine; nearly nothing works automagically.
Even in newer games, with brilliant and absolutely stunning graphics, I often experience that the players don't even realize how wonderful the surroundings look, how smooth it behaves, and how fantastic the lighting is set up. They just play the game, are interested in levelling up, collect items, and cannot imagine the work the developers had. They run through leaves as if the don't see them, and they never take a look at a tree's bark. The newer the game, the most they complain about bugs. I never get this, maybe because I'm a game developer now as well and know what's behind.

But that's just how it is haha, no one not 'in the business' of world/game/or just any extensive graphical creation might be able or willing to feel into this with the appropriate appreciation etc., but also life might get in the way for some etc. etc... And in general, on the other hand, how, considering all stated above by you and me, how should one now come about with a perceived lack or inconvenience or even disapproval, an opposing or completely different perception and taste, which is also natural, we are and feel all different ... Yeah, the trigger was that 'fix' lol, very nice, and through that we all now got a slight glimpse by the maker into how it is even possible to explore this scientific wonderland in the way it is possible to be explored, and also how its beautiful and realistic look and feel has come into existence ...

[Dulcamara]

Congratulations to
this wonderful age, it's perfect (at least for my eyes.)
I am thrilled, I have no words (especially the English ...).

Dulcamara

[Ainia]

Shorah tach and others,

Apologies if I sounded picky regarding my two questions. The loveseat room, to my untrained eye, was simply out of synch with the rest of the Age as the lighting in general in Relativity is quite natural and consistent, hence my first question. It's a bit confusing, that's all. So perhaps this location presents unique challenges? It seems to be the only indoor location unaffected by outdoor light since its few windows are fairly small and the corner is rather far from the doors... Don't know if its separation from the external world is the factor which makes this location seem so different from the rest of the Age's "look".

I'm also still curious regarding my second question, whether we are supposed to be able to look up/down. Are others also finding their views similarly restricted? I updated a few drivers just in case it was a system/setup anomaly but found no change in the behavior.

Since your comment about us early visitors being beta testers, tach, I'd assumed the Age Writers would want to know about such questions, but perhaps I'm wrong about that? I very much appreciate the insights into the technical aspects of this Age (and Age Writing in general) but also note that neither of my questions have been answered. So I'm still left wondering...

In any case, in spite of these two questions, I still find the Age stunning and a pleasure to explore. Lovely work everyone!

[Karkadann]

Considering its a work in progress, the only thing I really noticed that was a bit out of place is the shadows are facing the wrong direction compared to the Relativity sketch.

It exceeded my expectations, it really turned out great and its not even finished

[tachzusamm]

[..] but also note that neither of my questions have been answered. So I'm still left wondering...

Ainia, if this was your first question:

Regarding the love seat photo, I assume the lighting will be fixed in a later post-beta release? It's kinda strange to turn on the lamp and see the room brighten but for me (my avvie) to remain shadowy.

then I think I answered it:

It's planned to be extented in functionality, yes. [..]
, yes, I can make the lamp in the sofa room light the avatar accordlingly to the lightmaps as well.

If that was not your first question, but this instead:

The loveseat room, to my untrained eye, was simply out of synch with the rest of the Age as the lighting in general in Relativity is quite natural and consistent, hence my first question. It's a bit confusing, that's all. So perhaps this location presents unique challenges? It seems to be the only indoor location unaffected by outdoor light since its few windows are fairly small and the corner is rather far from the doors... Don't know if its separation from the external world is the factor which makes this location seem so different from the rest of the Age's "look".

then I did not get what you were asking, and only understand now (hopefully) because you explained later. Not sure what you mean with uniques challenges though.
If you mean that the lighting does not look pleasing when the lamp is switched off: That can be adjusted later, yes. Needs some more lamps at the windows to simulate outdoor lighting, and re-work of the lightmaps.


Regarding your second question:

Also, has the ability to look up/down been turned off or is this a bug?? I am seeing this peculiarity on both DI and in my offline version. Just wondering...

I could give now a long answer which explains how cameras in Relativity must work and why they are limited in functionality, but judging from what happend when I gave a long answer, I prefer a short answer now:
Yes, the ability to look up and down has been turned off.

[tachzusamm]

Considering its a work in progress, the only thing I really noticed that was a bit out of place is the shadows are facing the wrong direction compared to the Relativity sketch.

Yeah, you are right.
While working on the lighting (which was wery early in development, long ago), I tried putting the main light (the sun) in the same location as it seemed to be in the original drawing. But this had the effect that mostly everything in the main room (that room with stairs) of the Age would fall into shadows, and thus appear dark. It just looked better in the Age if the sun is somehow above the center of the house.

But you have a really good eye, Mr. Holmes. Only few people would even find this difference.

[Karkadann]

I always wondered why the shadows where like that.
After going threw three printouts of the drawing to build it, two of which where so covered in reference lines they had become useless it was ..........Elementary.

I always wondered why no one else noticed, which is why I waited so long to say something.