Guild of Writers

Shorah,
I have been studying the ways of 3D modeling recently, and have been using both 3Ds Max and Blender. While I was watching tutorials and trying to find my way around all the tools and stuff in the programs, I realized just how different the two programs are. I then tried to figure out which of them I liked better, but I could not decide. Just for fun, I decided to ask here, and see what kind of feedback I got.
So, which do you prefer? 3ds Max? Or Blender?

Both have an extreme learning curve. BUT

Because of the current plugins that are available My choice would have to be for 3DS Max

I have a bit of schooling in autoCad but could never get the hang of the two dimensional thing, I started doing some isometric drawings on a two dimensional plane and was told there was a three dimensional feature I can do this in.
Well I was hooked. 3D seems to be so much easer for me, I guess because we live in a 3D world and not a 2D world....as far as I know I never was good at concept are although I can work from it. Most of my concept art is in my head
the only problem is the interface between my imagination and the computer.

OK enough rambling, I prefer 3DS Max basically because its similar to AutoCad, From what I understand Blender is a lot of coding and because my bad spelling and grammar coding is something I find rather difficult.
The problem is that most of the artist here are more Blender savvy and although their are a lot of excellent tutorials for Max/Plazma Plasma I feel we still have much to learn about it, and since Cyan's plugins documentation
is rather limited, we're stuck trying figuring out a lot of the components ourself using bits and pieces of the tutorials the Coders and Blender artist have already provided for us.

I use Blender because it's free. I simply can't afford 3DS, besides, I have spent so long learning to use Blender, it would take an age for me to learn something else. ("age" as in "a long time", not somewhere to link to)

I also prefer 3ds Max, bcause I think that the component system is a lot easier than using Alcscript...

Christopher

Kyle N'orth wrote:Shorah,
I have been studying the ways of 3D modeling recently, and have been using both 3Ds Max and Blender. While I was watching tutorials and trying to find my way around all the tools and stuff in the programs, I realized just how different the two programs are. I then tried to figure out which of them I liked better, but I could not decide. Just for fun, I decided to ask here, and see what kind of feedback I got.
So, which do you prefer? 3ds Max? Or Blender?

This depends on what I'm trying to build/texture/light and exactly which version of which program you're speaking of. If your question had been which program would I prefer to learn to build for the future, my answer is to learn the newest version of Blender in anticipation of the release of Korman. IMHO, that is the only sustainable path for long term success of OS MOUL. I don't see Cyan's plugin maintaining viability due to the rather severe economic restraints of staying up-to-date with 3dsMax versions. Personally, I get the best results using a combination of Maya, Mudbox and 3dsMax2011, then converting to Blender 2.49b and exporting with pyPRP1.61.

I prefer exporting with pyPRP over Cyan's plug-in because I've gotten into the habit of relying on stacked alpha textures to add low poly details to my scenes. I haven't found a way to reliably control Z buffer stacking of two or more layers of alpha textures using Cyan's plugin.

Having said that, my opinion is that for a beginner, 3dsMax and Cyan's plugin might be much easier to learn the basics with. The plugin does a few things for the modeller, such as softening edges automatically on export, allowing menu-driven feature choices (as opposed to Alscript), plus being able to have vertex lighting baked automatically on export after placing Max standard lighting in the scene. The plugin will also give very specific error messages on export when something isn't done right (though I personally prefer the age.txt file created by prPRP). The cost of these features is some loss of control in artistic details and the limitations experienced due to the lack of in-depth documentation for the plug-in.

If your immediate goal is to get something that you can upload and share as quickly as possible, I'd say 3dsMax and Cyan's plugin. If you're more interested in learning to create beautiful worlds irregardless of how long it takes before you can get them on a server, then definitely go with a newer version of Blender. There is so much learning that goes into creating good models, beautiful textures and believable and attractive lighting in the format best suited to a real-time gaming environment that you will find yourself very very busy for a very long time .

EDIT TO ADD: One important word of caution I'd like to mention - while reviewing your options and watching video tutorials, make sure the lessons you're learning are to build for a real-time gaming environment. A lot of the tutorials posted all over the Interwebz are designed for pre-rendered modelling used in the film industry or high-def models used by architectural and design firms. You don't want waste time learning the wrong things.

Calena wrote:EDIT TO ADD: One important word of caution I'd like to mention - while reviewing your options and watching video tutorials, make sure the lessons you're learning are to build for a real-time gaming environment. A lot of the tutorials posted all over the Interwebz are designed for pre-rendered modelling used in the film industry or high-def models used by architectural and design firms. You don't want waste time learning the wrong things.

I kind of disagree with this, when learning blender for the first time it's more important to understand how the interface works and how the different model tools work. This is not different depending on what it's meant for. After that, it's not that
hard to learn how to make low-poly models. I think that if you limit yourself on just tutorials meant for in game models, there are a lot less.

Calena wrote:IMHO, that is the only sustainable path for long term success of OS MOUL. I don't see Cyan's plugin maintaining viability due to the rather severe economic restraints of staying up-to-date with 3dsMax versions.

I have to disagree with that... The Cyan plugin is compatible with more recent versions of 3ds Max than PyPRP with Blender. I don't know How old Blender 2.49b is, but the last Version of 3ds Max the plugin is compatible is only 2 years old. PyPRP is AFAIK more or less dead, means no longer developed.

Calena wrote:I prefer exporting with pyPRP over Cyan's plug-in because I've gotten into the habit of relying on stacked alpha textures to add low poly details to my scenes. I haven't found a way to reliably control Z buffer stacking of two or more layers of alpha textures using Cyan's plugin.

I don't really know what Z-Buffers are or what you mean with it... I only know that there are several ways to control transperency and blending of textures...

Calena wrote:If you're more interested in learning to create beautiful worlds irregardless of how long it takes before you can get them on a server, then definitely go with a newer version of Blender.

I also have to disagree with that. I wouldn't say that you can make a better age in 3ds or Blender. If you know what you are doing both plugins can produce beautiful ages. The 3ds Max plugin also has some additions over pyPRP, so you can make Wavesets, vertexShaders (grass in the wind), GUIs and more.

Christopher

I have only recently started reading up on some threads again after almost 4 years or so of agebuilding. I did know about the release of sourcecode and the 3DS Max plugin. From what I understand there are still quite a few people building ages. What is everone using right now? I was thinking about starting in Blender again, but I get the impression that's not handy since those ages won't work with the newer shards. Am I right? If many of you are writing using the 3DS Max pluging, then how do you go about? I have worked with Max when it first came out. I won't buy Max especially for agebuilding. Is there like an older version available of a student version you are all writing in? If not it's back to Blender anyway.

Thnx!

Marcello wrote:From what I understand there are still quite a few people building ages. What is everone using right now?

As I wrote earlier in this thread I am using the Max plugin, but AFAIK most people are using pyPRP and blender cause it's free (or they used blender for years).

Marcello wrote:I was thinking about starting in Blender again, but I get the impression that's not handy since those ages won't work with the newer shards. Am I right?

Partially. Newer Shards are using the newer Uru Engine from MOUL whereas pyPRP only exports to the older Engine from tPots. These two versions are incompatible, so you can't play an age you exported with pyPRP on newer MOUL(a) based shards. There is however a script called Tranfusion which allows you to convert ages, exported with pyPRP to the new format. But AFAIK this only works with "simple" ages. If you have more complex ages with puzzles and animations and such stuff, you'll get problems.

Marcello wrote:Is there like an older version available of a student version you are all writing in?

You can get student version of 3ds Max 2010 and newer from Autodesk for free. The 3ds Max Plugin is compatible with Max versions up to 2012.

Christopher