Release of ELSEWHERE after Somewhere and Iceworld

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Re: Release of ELSEWHERE after Somewhere and Iceworld

Postby Sirius » Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:10 am

About the puzzles: always remember the timer is started when you click the button, NOT when your avatar touches it.
So before touching any button, make sure you line up PERFECTLY with it. This means the avatar will only waste time on pressing the button, not on walking/rotating to face it too.
Also, bumpy physics make it really hard to go from one place to the other. This is something I fixed in my version as well.

But yeah, I couldn't solve this puzzle correctly either, since I didn't know whether I was missing something or whether I was simply too slow. I tried again but I'm pretty sure I'm missing something... :?
Show Spoiler

... which means I cheated to get outside and explore a bit :x But having to resort to cheat is annoying (especially since this Age is all about not cheating), so I preferred to stop there until I can find the solution to the first puzzle.


...Anyway... Once outside, I bumped the render distance to tenfold the default distance. And while I'm always whining about bad graphics in Fan-Ages, I was really stunned by the sheer size of the place (the farthest I could see was at the maximum draw distance - a bit above 3 kilometers :o ). While there may be no lighting, the place still has some impressive realism just by the mass of terrain in front of you. Well, at least that's what I think...

Indeed, the lag was quite stunning as well. I already had my program remove performance eaters in the Age, but increased view distance means decreased performances (even with a decent graphic card). It seems Elsewhere doesn't use VisRegions, and for performance you must rely on the short draw distance instead.


...That's when I stopped playing to add a few options to my optimization utility 8-)


With today's version, I can use an insane draw distance with absolutely no drop in performance. There are some differences in visuals, but it doesn't stray too far from the original.
Of course it doesn't mean it will run smoothly on older PCs, but it's certainly faster, and decreasing draw distance is pretty easy if you want less lag. Soooooo...

I'm waiting for Denost's answer before making this version available - especially around what he thinks best for draw distance and sky color.

Then there is always the option of using my tool to enhance lighting in the Age like I'm doing in Elodea - but that will definitely change the Age's mood a lot, and the tool itself still needs polishing, so it'll wait.
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Re: Release of ELSEWHERE after Somewhere and Iceworld

Postby denost2 » Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:10 pm

Reply 1 : Performance and lag

ELSEWHERE

issue: Performance and lag
Informations to explorers

ELSEWHERE has been tested on four different PC
Numerous tests have been performed for this Age after similar difficulties for some explorers playing Somewhere and Iceworld
That was necessary taking into account ELSEWHERE is much more ambitious than previous Ages

######################################################################################
PC1

Computer used for development
Type : tower

OPENING AGE ELSEWHERE
T1(second) time between the clic on the page book ELSEWHERE and the end of the progress bar
T2(second) time between the end of the progress bar and the avatar ready to go
T1= 7s
T2= 8s

PLAYING AGE ELSEWERE
No lag
excellent movement of avatar
To succeed to go out the beginning cave (for somebody who knows perfectly the logical process): EASY

------------------
System Information
------------------
Time of this report: 3/13/2015, 09:58:56
Machine name: DENOST-PC
Operating System: Windows 7 Édition Intégrale 32-bit (6.1, Build 7600) (7600.win7_gdr.130318-1532)
Language: French (Regional Setting: French)
System Manufacturer: ASUS
System Model: All Series
BIOS: BIOS Date: 08/06/13 19:00:36 Ver: 06.03
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-4330 CPU @ 3.50GHz (4 CPUs), ~3.5GHz
Memory: 4096MB RAM
Available OS Memory: 3538MB RAM
Page File: 922MB used, 5614MB available
Windows Dir: C:\Windows
DirectX Version: DirectX 11
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
User DPI Setting: Using System DPI
System DPI Setting: 96 DPI (100 percent)
DWM DPI Scaling: Disabled
DxDiag Version: 6.01.7600.16385 32bit Unicode

#######################################################################################
PC2
Second computer used for development
Type : tower

OPENING AGE ELSEWERE
T1(second) time between the clic on the page book ELSEWHERE and the end of the progress bar
T2(second) time between the end of the progress bar and the avatar ready to go
T1= 13s
T2= 15s

PLAYING AGE ELSEWERE
No lag
excellent movement of avatar
To succeed to go out the beginning cave (for somebody who knows perfectly the logical process): EASY

------------------
System Information
------------------
Time of this report: 3/13/2015, 09:15:21
Machine name: UTILISAT-55F961
Operating System: Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600) Service Pack 3 (2600.xpsp_sp3_qfe.130704-0421)
Language: French (Regional Setting: French)
System Manufacturer: Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd.
System Model: P55-UD3R
BIOS: Award Modular BIOS v6.00PG
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5 CPU 750 @ 2.67GHz (4 CPUs)
Memory: 2044MB RAM
Page File: 415MB used, 3520MB available
Windows Dir: C:\WINDOWS
DirectX Version: DirectX 9.0c (4.09.0000.0904)
DX Setup Parameters: Not found

#######################################################################################
PC3
used for normal condition test (playing only)
Type : laptop Toshiba

OPENING AGE ELSEWHERE
T1(second) time between the clic on the page book ELSEWHERE and the end of the progress bar
T2(second) time between the end of the progress bar and the avatar ready to go
T1= 13s
T2= 35s

PLAYING AGE ELSEWERE
No lag but sometimes saccadic (or jerked) movement of the avatar
To succeed to go out the beginning cave (for somebody who knows perfectly the logical process): EASY


------------------
System Information
------------------
Time of this report: 3/13/2015, 13:04:30
Machine name: PC-UTILISATEUR
Operating System: Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600) Service Pack 3 (2600.xpsp.080413-2111)
Language: French (Regional Setting: French)
System Manufacturer: TOSHIBA
System Model: Satellite P300
BIOS: PhoenixBIOS 4.0 Release 6.1
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T6400 @ 2.00GHz (2 CPUs)
Memory: 3066MB RAM
Page File: 322MB used, 5649MB available
Windows Dir: C:\WINDOWS
DirectX Version: DirectX 9.0c (4.09.0000.0904)
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
DxDiag Version: 5.03.2600.5512 32bit Unicode

#######################################################################################
PC4
used for worst condition test (playing only)
Type : HP Note Book laptop

OPENING AGE ELSEWHERE
T1(second) time between the clic on the page book ELSEWHERE and the end of the progress bar
T2(second) time between the end of the progress bar and the avatar ready to go
T1= 28s
T2= 65s


PLAYING AGE ELSEWERE
Important lag disagreable to play with
To succeed to go out the beginning cave (for somebody who knows perfectly the logical process): DIFFICULT (one success after 6 tries)

------------------
System Information
------------------
Time of this report: 3/13/2015, 09:51:32
Machine name: PROPRIÉTAIRE-PC
Operating System: Windows 7 Édition Familiale Premium 64-bit (6.1, Build 7600) (7600.win7_rtm.090713-1255)
Language: French (Regional Setting: French)
System Manufacturer: Hewlett-Packard
System Model: HP Pavilion dm1 Notebook PC
BIOS: InsydeH2O Version CCB.03.60.43F.12
Processor: AMD E-350 Processor (2 CPUs), ~1.6GHz
Memory: 3072MB RAM
Available OS Memory: 2666MB RAM
Page File: 817MB used, 4512MB available
Windows Dir: C:\Windows
DirectX Version: DirectX 11
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
User DPI Setting: Using System DPI
System DPI Setting: 96 DPI (100 percent)
DWM DPI Scaling: Disabled
DxDiag Version: 6.01.7600.16385 32bit Unicode
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Re: Release of ELSEWHERE after Somewhere and Iceworld

Postby denost2 » Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:21 pm

Reply 2: Aspect, lightning...

I appreciate the interest of Sirius and I understand his propositions but I have made some choices
to obtain a certain mood as Sirius mentionned it
Sirius wrote:but that will definitely change the Age's mood a lot,


So I do not hope to change anything for the moment
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Re: Release of ELSEWHERE after Somewhere and Iceworld

Postby denost2 » Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:40 pm

Reply 3: How to go out?

Since many years as author I let the explorers exchange informations and I respected the rule of no intervention
But I think the present puzzle is perhaps to difficult and I will follow the always pertinent advice of Annabelle

Annabelle wrote:So for the alpha explorer who doesn't necessarily run in this game (or like to run intensively), it will be a killer!


The help below is not direct, and now I let explorers help themselves each other if necessary
It would be sad to be blocked in the beginning which is a very, very... small part of the Age


Show Spoiler
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Re: Release of ELSEWHERE after Somewhere and Iceworld

Postby janaba » Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:45 pm

I've been exploring today again, and I just wanted to have another deeper look into it all, I now can easily reach that door betimes lol, but that's it ... So, I somehow felt it'd be ok, just like most of you all, to add my Flymode feature to the adventure lol, and thus and so I've been almlost (almost, because I don't know it exactly lol) everywhere in the vastness of that world, I at least found all saving points but one by now ... :P

Wow!!! denost, as Annabelle said, this world, as all of your creations, is again so huge, so vast, and I've always loved the extraordinary transportation systems in your ages, but they are also very much needed everywhere, esp. in 'Elesewhere', otherwise one would get absolutely lost ... As Annabelle has provided us with an excellent and extensive review, to which I absolutely agree in almost every point, I'm not going to add very much right now (without the puzzle solving, I didn't do that - except the beautiful pillars/barricades and such that was easy and fun -, I've read a lot, and everything worked quite nice so far, and I didn't experience too much lag) ... Ohh, I don't want to forget to mention that incredible dangerous creature or predator, as Annabelle called it ... now that was a lovely ehh terrible sight and addition ... 8-)

Ok, denost, much much effort, nerves, time, great ideas and dedication went into this creation again ... I've enjoyed to explore 'Elsewhere' in my way and style (plus much more flymode than initially intended this time) a lot ... I will follow this thread along, maybe someone will post sth I didn't discover by now, of which I'm very certain that someone will ... Thank you, denost, and I wish you all much much fun further on ... :)

(Ohhh, I just see in my preview before posting that you've posted something very long, denost ... I will read this now but not comment here in my present post ... )
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Re: Release of ELSEWHERE after Somewhere and Iceworld

Postby Annabelle » Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:58 pm

Hi Denost!

I'm happy to tell you that I have completed the game :)

I also made several changes to my review post.

I figured it by myself finally the first puzzle. It's not that hard, but you must be prepared mentally, know the route, and run fast :lol:
I can achieved it quite easily with my quad-core i7 from some years ago so it should be ok for a lot of explorers!

Finally, I can tell you that the "predator" I wrote about was not really a real one... in fact, you must go after it under certain conditions ;)

The whole age is far from being easy, it's really nice, everything is asthonishing. I still don't like the timed puzzles but I cannot only judge something that marvel on little details. I will get over them (the 2 of them) quite easily. Even the ending is not what I expected :lol: .

Somewhere ending was one experience, Iceworld ending was a complete other experience, Elsewhere ending is completely different as well.

I can understand why it took you 2 years to complete this age. It's very well made. It's the most fluid of all your ages. Congrats!

I'll post pictures later on.
Annabelle ;)
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Re: Release of ELSEWHERE after Somewhere and Iceworld

Postby Ainia » Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:52 pm

denost, I am gathering from your Reply 1 above that you intend to leave everything as it is with Elsewhere and not address the lag issues? Your posted test results show that you were aware of lag already and apparently decided to release the Age anyway.

If this is so, then I'm afraid I will never be able to visit your Age, unless Sirius is willing to provide me with his optimized version. (I am certainly not going to replace my computer system because of this.)

Very disappointing... :(
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Re: Release of ELSEWHERE after Somewhere and Iceworld

Postby denost2 » Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:50 am

Annabelle wrote:Hi Denost!

I'm happy to tell you that I have completed the game


Thank you for all your comments in this post and the previous one much more detailed
I am surprised, and this is a weak verb to describe my impression, to see how you seem to be able to anticipate what I could imagine.

And not only the intelligence of your quest but also the speed or rapidity to obtain so many details and deep understanding of puzzles.

OK Annabelle... and reading your papers I think (I am not completely sure) you would be happy to know that you have a lot of things to discover...
May be I am wrong and you limited your texts not to spoil the Adventure, but I have some doubts. Some places not mentionned only by a vague word let me imagine that.

If it is true it is a good new, so good time of adventure is in front of you and all explorers

Note: thank you to have used the term "Adventure" to describe Elsewhere it is exactly what I tried to make.
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Re: Release of ELSEWHERE after Somewhere and Iceworld

Postby janaba » Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:43 am

Congratulations, Annabelle!!! ... :P

Your success is so exciting for me as it at the same time proves or just shows that it is possible and that everything 'can work' as intended, but of course every computer 'works/behaves' differently, just like us lol, so there's no guarantee and no way for an age or game creator to do it perfectly 'for all' ... and your revised review is awesome, I've immediately saved the link to your post for when I'll add 'Elsewhere' to the 'FanAges' PDF file ... :D

As I've said before, for me everything worked fine too and without much lag, just that I didn't go into the puzzles specifically ... I could run and jump everywhere, there's much freedom to move and there is sooo much interaction and fun, really ... That lovely moving 'thing', I don't want to name it here yet, as long as noone does lol (I'm glad that I don't need to call it a predator anymore, haha), it was such a surprise, I was really excited and ran after it to see where it might lead me or if it was just moving about, and then suddenly it just stopped right in front of me, as if it had a message for me or just to say 'Hi' lol, so, I said 'Hi', took a photo and then it moved on ... I followed it for a short while again and then moved on myself ...

In general, it is really amazing how you, denost, have managed to get this all working as it does, so that even a not so serious explorer, but excited adventurer every now and again, like me lol, can experience lots of surprises and fun ... :)
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Re: Release of ELSEWHERE after Somewhere and Iceworld

Postby Annabelle » Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:39 am

You are right denost!

I didn't play the whole game as intended (sorry to (maybe) disappoint you Janaba but thanks for your message :) ). I'm still missing a lot of stuff especially in the 3rd part. It's hard to understand but I'll try to explain nevertheless.


Start to Eternal Snow Summits Island:
From the start to the point where I reach the island with eternal snow summits, I'm doing all the things that were intended by the scenario. I'm missing nothing, everything flows.


Eternal Snow Summits Island and the surrounding areas:
Once on the island with eternal snow summits, I understand the logic of this whole area, I just cannot solve it. And this is where another kind of logic jumps in: skydiving to cross barriers. You have to have a deep understanding of the whole age logic to be able to "sneak" your way through like I'm doing. I found an interesting note somewhere (unreachable for me), I just took a picture and I studied the whole thing. It says: "B1 B2 B3 B2 B4 B1". "B3" is impossible for me, it's just unthinkable... "B2" for me is avoidable, I can easily go around either way so no need for me to play with it. So, I'm solving it like this instead: "B1 B2 B3 B2 B4 B1" --> "B1 B4 B1". Obviously doing it like that, "B4" is completely out of reach... but is it really? I found a breach, I was stuck on the wrong side of a collision wall, all I needed was a "hole" and the "hole is provided by a subworld, the lift, on the clue island. Everytime I want to cross from outside to inside, I just need to wait for the lift to come back down and jump literally through the "hole" it opens. After that... well I'm on the clue island :lol: I do my stuff and that's it!

I then go for the sliding door island. The barrier is open (because of "B4") but not the access to the island itself... Is it bothering? Hmm no! I sneak my way there, in and out, using skydiving, I do the stuff I must do. I've just been very lucky the first time, I got the action right, the location right! So, once there, I go directly to my favourite spot, wait like a predator on its prey, and Paf!!! Voilà! I get the intended action all the time within minutes. This action enables me to push further down the journey normally ;)


Beyond that:
I go to the last locations normally and play them the intended ways up to the end part.

-------------------------
How I figured out the coordinates of the last puzzle? In reverse & with luck :lol: .

I had the clues (clue island) & the pictures of every coordinates I took during my journey on one hand, & also the mathematical operations that Gary Bradwell left in different locations on the other hand. I couldn't get the solution though; I'm not really into mathematics solving... I went to the said location, I tried something, anything,... plouf I was in the water! Ok that was obviously not the good solution... I stayed right in front of the imager going through all the coordinates, and I luckily clicked on the one I found the most appealing, I had no idea what was the solution. That time I didn't plunge in the water so I figured it out, I got it right. I only did 2 plungeons :lol: before I got it right.
-------------------------

From that moment forward, everything is easy. And I can find back the solution in reverse now since I have all the original coordinates, all the clues, all the notes, & the solution (I was lucky on it but I found it nevertheless).


Here's "Annabelle's method"™ to complete an age:
1) I'm solving what I can solve
2) I'm filling the holes with skydiving
3) I'm backtracking the adventure to understand everything <-- I might not do it right away with Elsewhere
I did it with Somewhere, Iceworld, Elsewhere, Adrael, Elodea, R'Oshanhnin Korvahkhn, etc.


A walkthrough coming up?
Not really, because you'll have to do skydiving as there is at least one puzzle I'm skipping: "the colour dots puzzle". I just cannot understand it at all. This is why I'm saying, I need to have a deep understanding of the whole age logic, because I need to figure out if what I'm skipping, the said puzzle, will impact the future or if I can jump right back inside the story quite easily... I know I'm missing some stuff, I saw a strange location with a strange device, I have no idea what it does... Gary Bradwell refers to it on a note left near the coordinates imager on a faraway island.


So yes I'm missing some of the intricacies of the whole age but I'm still enjoying my journey there very much!
Annabelle ;)
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