Question about requesting some Age Prefixes.

[Maroonroon]

Hello;

I'd like to request some prefixes in the Age Prefixes List, but I wonder how many prefixes I need ...

Imagine that the Ages I'm building are in the Relto bookshelf.
I need only 2 linking books (2 different Ages).

The first linking book, to the "Age 1", must only have 1 linking panel.
In this Age, there are linking books to the "Age 2", but with a different linking panel for each of them.

The second linking book, to the "Age 2", must have 6 different linking panels.
Each of those linking panels take us to a different area.
We can't reach one of those areas from another one of them (they also can't be seen from each other).
To reach another one of those areas, we have to return to the "Age 1" and to use another "Age 2" linking book (or to return to the Relto and to use a different linking panel of the "Age 2" linking book).
Those 6 different areas have a medium size and are at different "corner" of the "Age 2".

If only the "Age 2" area we are linking to is loaded, I need only 2 prefixes:

- 1 prefix for the "Age 1"
- 1 prefix for the "Age 2"

If all the "Age 2" areas are loaded at each linking to one of them, I should better request 7 prefixes because of the size of the areas; right?

- 1 prefix for the "Age 1"
- 1 prefix for each of the "Age 2" areas

So, do I need 2 or 7 prefixes, please?

Regards.

Edit: Removed some useless spoilers, and the subworlds thing which was wrong.

[Tweek]

You need a prefix number for an Age.

So if you have an Age called 1 you'll need a prefix number for it.

If you have an Age called 1 and it links to another Age called 2 then you will need a prefix number for both of those Ages.

If you have an Age called 1 and it links to an Age called 2 but Age 2 is in the Age files of Age 1 you only need a prefix number for Age 1. (Kind of like how Gahreesen has the Maintainers Nexus as part of the Gahreesen Age files even though it would be its own Age).

Hope that makes sense.

[Christian Walther]

You need two prefixes if you organize your areas into two ages as you describe. You can organize them differently, but you should also consider that this affects whether players can see each other on the Age Players list and can talk to each other in age chat.

You also seem to be confused about what a subworld is. A subworld is not a confined section of space and not a mechanism for selective loading. A subworld is used to have avatars move with a moving part of the world, like an elevator. The mechanism for selective loading is putting things into separate pages. A mechanism for selective rendering is visregions. Some of this is explained in Performance Optimization, but for details you will have to ask someone who has actually used it or otherwise knows more about it than I.

[Maroonroon]

Thank you for your answers, Tweek and Christian Walther.

You need two prefixes if you organize your areas into two ages as you describe. You can organize them differently, but you should also consider that this affects whether players can see each other on the Age Players list and can talk to each other in age chat.

You're right, I didn't think about the ability (or not) to see another avatar.
Then I think that I need 7 prefixes (am I right?), because I don't want that an avatar in an area A, can see on his Age Player list another avatar in an area B ...
IC, there are some miles between the different areas of the Age 2; I think it isn't great to be able to speak via the Age Player list to an avatar which is at some miles of us.

You also seem to be confused about what a subworld is. A subworld is not a confined section of space and not a mechanism for selective loading. A subworld is used to have avatars move with a moving part of the world, like an elevator. The mechanism for selective loading is putting things into separate pages. A mechanism for selective rendering is visregions. Some of this is explained in Performance Optimization, but for details you will have to ask someone who has actually used it or otherwise knows more about it than I.

Thank you for that too!

[Sirius]

I don't know if the "age player" list relies on KI's distance in Uru's cannon. Since it already has inter-dimensional capacities, it could work regardless of distance :shrug:
In Minkata and MOUL's Ahnonay, each player can see each other in the list even when being *very* far away. But in Pod Ages, only players in the same pod can be seen, while being in the same Age cannon-wise (meaning the KI would lose track of other people half a continent away). However I don't know if that's a valid argument, as Cyan might have overlooked such a small detail in favor of game performance.


In character, I would expect KI's to detect other KI's only in a 100 kilometers radius, except maybe in abnormal events such as electromagnetic storm or something which would jam communications.
But I think it's best to look at things from an out-of-character point of view, as the Age player list is an unimportant detail, and because splitting an Age into several other Ages has some pros and cons unrelated to story.


Splitting in other Ages is good because:
- if all locations are very far away with one another it's consistent with KI behavior from Pod Ages
- only one area is loaded at a time, which means more performance in-game
- ability to use the /!resetage command on a single location, so that people can reset only the part of the Age they are exploring
- easier to work with as you have separate Blend/Max files
- all locations have different names displayed in the KI, for instance: "D'ni - Ae'Gura", "D'ni - Rudenna", etc

Keeping everything in a single Age is good because:
- if all locations are still relatively close (like Riven's five islands), it's consistent with KI behavior in normal Ages.
- it's easier to make puzzles across all locations (say, a power source in area #1 which powers up a device in area #2)
- easier for players to know who else is playing the Age, which allows them to get help more easily (this outweights the cannon issue IMHO).
- it's a single set of file, so it means the overall weight in mb will be lower (especially if you reuse a lot of textures in each area)
- it's a single set of file, so it means less clutter in Uru's install folder (this really isn't much of an issue)

As Christian said, there is also the possibility of selective loading which is a mix of the two, but since it's tricky to setup most of the time it's not even worth considering IMHO.

So yeah, splitting in multiple Ages might be the best option in your case.

[Maroonroon]

Thank you for your answer, Sirius.

Then, I will take 7 prefixes.

You are speaking about "D'ni - Ae'Gura", "D'ni - Rudenna", etc ...
I was editing my last post to ask a question about noming an Age, and I saw your post before sending my edited post (then I didn't edit it).

Here is my question :

For example, if the "Earth" doesn't exist anymore, humans goes to another planet and they call it the "New Earth", I want to speak about the "North Pole" of the New Earth, and the New Earth is Maroonroon's New Earth ( ); how should I write that using the KI template, please?

a) Maroonroon's New Earth North Pole?
b) Maroonroon's New Earth's North Pole?
c) Maroonroon's New Earths North Pole?
d) Maroonroon's New Earth - North Pole? (same situation than "D'ni - Ae'Gura", "D'ni - Rudenna" etc)
e) Something else?

Edit: typo

[dtierce]

I think the question about age prefixes should be derived from the underlying concept of your world(s). If the different locations are conceptually part of the same world, only one prefix should be used allowing KI communication regardless of distance. The KI is a powerful device whose science allows it to communicate over infinite distance and to even penetrate between different ages. It simply categorizes those communications according to whether it is communicating across an age barrier or not. You should not impose a distance limitation on the KI just because you don't like it.

Conversely, if the worlds are different creations by the writer, they should have different prefixes.

Just my opinion,
David Tierce

[Tweek]

As for the KI. As a device that can communicate across time and space, across multiple universes, the notion that explorers in the Ae'gura Library cannot hear people talking down at the Tokotah building is completely ridiculous. I don't understand why Cyan considered that a good idea.

From a lore point of view there should not be a distance drop off for the KI. Explorers at the North Pole should be able to hear what KI users at the South pole are saying. The pod Ages you should be able to hear players in Negilahn even if you're in Testonot. The problem is instancing and how the Pod Ages are set up, cause problems there (another reason I dislike gameplay instancing).

I think the question about age prefixes should be derived from the underlying concept of your world(s). If the different locations are conceptually part of the same world, only one prefix should be used allowing KI communication regardless of distance. The KI is a powerful device whose science allows it to communicate over infinite distance and to even penetrate between different ages. It simply categorizes those communications according to whether it is communicating across an age barrier or not. You should not impose a distance limitation on the KI just because you don't like it.

Conversely, if the worlds are different creations by the writer, they should have different prefixes.

Just my opinion,
David Tierce

No that will not work. every .age file needs to have it's own prefix number. For example I have Fahets, which is an entire planet and on that planet are multiple locations players can access. The initial basin age players can visit called Fahets (Fahets.age) has it's own sequence prefix. The Crimson Vale (which is about a mile away from the basin of Fahets) has its own prefix number (because the file is CrimsonVale.age), same with Fehrehmto.

Now if the Crimson Vale or Fehrehmto was a page in the Fahets.age files (Fahets_District_CrimsonVale.prp or Fahets_District_Fehrehmto.prp) then I would need only 1 prefix number for the Fahets.age.

If I assign the same prefix number in Fahets.age to CrimsonVale.age then it causes problems Uru does not like duplicate prefix numbers and your Age will not work.

[Sirius]

In my opinion: the Age Player list is just a conveniency for the chat system, no need to take any big decision according to it. While I agree the KI should work regardless of distance, Cyan themselves did not respect this rule, just because it makes things so much damn simpler for the world management system. It's like markers you place in Gahreesen: they should NEVER move with the tower itself, and yet they appear to follow its movement when you're inside. Why ? Because it's a limitation of the game engine, and because they would be completely useless gameplay-wise if they always moved around.

By the way, I forgot another Age which does not follow the KI rules set by other "big Ages" (like Minkata, Ahnonay or the Pods Age): D'ni itself. For instance, Sharper's office and the spyroom (both located in Ae'Gura) are completely self-contained from the "Age players" list system. And yet they are very close lore-wise. So Cyan definitely did break their own rules. Doesn't mean I blame them, just that you're absolutely completely free to detach yourself from the lore on this point, and do what you think is easiest to handle for you or best for the engine.
Elodea is another example of a Fan-Age which is split in four different areas just for game stability. Doesn't have any impact on the quality of the Age.

As for the naming system in the KI, I would suggest option d), as it improves readability in my opinion. But again, this is not exactly a fixed, unbroken rule set by Cyan.
Also, when building don't worry about the Age name - just pick a convenient name without spaces, like MaroonroonNENorthPole.age, and never change it or the sequence prefix, otherwise it will corrupt your save game. It's possible to change the name displayed by the KI once you release the Age, and this won't corrupt anything.
This is actually what Cyan did for Eder Kemo, for instance. The "real" Age name you never see is actually "Garden", but it was renamed when it was finished.


Short version of my philosophy: just pick whichever sounds easiest when building, and build ! Otherwise you'll be lost in petty lore details and never even get to start creating anything.


(also: don't bother editing each of your post all the time. Being wrong is perfectly right, and it makes the thread easiest to read afterwards It's best to edit your post only to remove potential spoilers, or to correct invalid informations, example: "You can change the Age prefix anytime EDIT: do NOT change the Age prefix once it's set, as it can corrupt saves !")

[Maroonroon]

Thank you for your answers, dtierce, Tweek and Sirius.

Every .age file needs to have it's own prefix number. For example I have Fahets, which is an entire planet and on that planet are multiple locations players can access. The initial basin age players can visit called Fahets (Fahets.age) has it's own sequence prefix. The Crimson Vale (which is about a mile away from the basin of Fahets) has its own prefix number (because the file is CrimsonVale.age), same with Fehrehmto.

Now if the Crimson Vale or Fehrehmto was a page in the Fahets.age files (Fahets_District_CrimsonVale.prp or Fahets_District_Fehrehmto.prp) then I would need only 1 prefix number for the Fahets.age.

If I assign the same prefix number in Fahets.age to CrimsonVale.age then it causes problems Uru does not like duplicate prefix numbers and your Age will not work.

I'm in this case (like the Pods).
The "New Earth" (it's an example name for my "Age 2") is an entire planet and on that planet are multiple locations players can access; "North Pole" is an example name for one of those locations.
If it appears on the Relto bookshelf, I want the linking panels to those 6 locations to be in the same linking book (not like the Pods), and the "Earth" (it's an example name for my "Age 1") to have its own linking book.
I think each of the 6 locations of the "New Earth" will have a size that looks like an Ahnonay's sphere, and the distance between those locations looks like the distance between two Pods ...
A little part of the "North Pole", a little part of "Africa", a little part of "Australia", etc.
Is it better to use 6 prefixes* in that case (like you did with Fahets), or to use only 1 prefix* but different pages in the NewEarth.age files?

* + 1 prefix for the "Earth".

As for the naming system in the KI, I would suggest option d), as it improves readability in my opinion. But again, this is not exactly a fixed, unbroken rule set by Cyan.
Also, when building don't worry about the Age name - just pick a convenient name without spaces, like MaroonroonNENorthPole.age, and never change it or the sequence prefix, otherwise it will corrupt your save game. It's possible to change the name displayed by the KI once you release the Age, and this won't corrupt anything.
This is actually what Cyan did for Eder Kemo, for instance. The "real" Age name you never see is actually "Garden", but it was renamed when it was finished.

Okay, thank you Sirius.

also: don't bother editing each of your post all the time. Being wrong is perfectly right, and it makes the thread easiest to read afterwards It's best to edit your post only to remove potential spoilers, or to correct invalid informations, example: "You can change the Age prefix anytime EDIT: do NOT change the Age prefix once it's set, as it can corrupt saves !"

Oops, sorry.

Edit: typo