The Cathedral Released!

If you feel like you're up to the challenge of building your own Ages in Blender or 3ds Max, this is the place for you!

Re: The Cathedral Released!

Postby Sirius » Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:11 pm

Congratulations DenDwaler ! :D

As one of the beta testers, I already played the Cathedral several times, and can confirm what an awesome Age this is.

Emor wrote:(my only wish would be that, at some point in the future, you could apply more work on shadowing/lighting, using shadowmapping and/or vertex shading)
Yes indeed. Unfortunately, as DenDwaler said, this is really hard to get with Uru's engine. For sure, it would be cool if absolutely every candle or fire in the cathedral could light its surroundings, but that's just too much to setup, especially with such big Ages... Lighting with PyPRP can take literally tens of hours to apply to each object in the scene.
Lighting in the Cathedral is already great IMHO. It's not as fancy as Cyan's, but it feels realistic enough for an interior area. It doesn't feel like objects are glowing with light or anything (contrarily to most other fan Ages), textures are not repetitive, and there is a subtle shadowing effect on most objects. The stained glass in the central area also even appears to cast colored light on the floor beneath it :) That's better than you could expect for such huge Age.

Dulcamara wrote:So much to learn in this short time, that is admirable. Without teachers only tutorials. Not every student has as much stamina.
Motivation is the key to success :P
It's always impressive to see people learn Age building no matter their age, background or computer skills...


...
Yeah, it's a shame there isn't a simple way to make it multiplayer-compatible (or at least, coop-compatible) for people who like to explore together like Zesty and Kirk...
It might be worth asking Diafero how much hassle it would be to put the Cathedral out of the regular instancing rules for fan-Ages, so it can be made private... (at least, maybe notify him so he can put the Cathedral on UAM, for conveniency).
As Korovev said, that's the ever-annoying dilemma with mass multiplayer exploration games like Uru :roll:
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Re: The Cathedral Released!

Postby Doobes » Wed Mar 02, 2016 11:29 am

Sirius wrote:Lighting with PyPRP can take literally tens of hours to apply to each object in the scene.


Ugh...tell me about it. The lighting, and lightmapping, are by far the most difficult thing to get just right. Took me hours and numerous adjustments to get it right in the Pub and other projects.

Still, it makes quite a difference. For example, Tweek and Whilyam have both used lightmaps for newer versions of Fehnir House and Tosholek respectively, and the results make those locations even more impressive than they were before, IMHO. It really makes Ages more atmospheric, and for an expansive cathedral such as this, it could make it look even more amazing as well.

I should also note that lightmapping has been made much easier in Korman. You now only have to set a modifier for each lit object to a UV map and a light group. Everything else is done on export, so no more turning off textures, baking individual lightmaps, and setting up a new texture for each, which is usually the bulk of time taken on those. You can even preview what the lightmap texture will look like too.

In any case, wonderful job on the cathedral! Hopefully soon, I'll have enough time to solve it in its entirety. :D
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Re: The Cathedral Released!

Postby dendwaler » Wed Mar 02, 2016 1:11 pm

May be for a next project i will also use korman and try its lightning possibilities.
For this age divided into 15 different prp files i could not even export it once after i loaded it into korman.
Besides that , i had to change all the logic.
I am certain that will be different when i start a fresh new project or a small age without a puzzle.
Those wonderfull Worlds are called " Ages" , because that is what it takes to build one.

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Re: The Cathedral Released!

Postby diafero » Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:30 pm

Thankfully, Wamduskasapa notified me that there's a new age :-) so this will be on UAM and DI soon - not today though, uploading 150 MiB through my internet at home would take ages (pun kind of intended ;-) ). So I'll upload it tomorrow, over the shiny 1 GBit/s link I have in my office :D

EDIT: Actually, there is a problem. You PAK file includes "xSimpleImager.py", which is a Cyan python file. You must not ship Cyan python files in your age's PAK file, since then every single age would use your file, instead of the one from Cyan - that's not what we want!
I can just remove the xSimpleImager.py from your PAK file. However, if you actually changed that file (compared to what the Offline KI ships), you will have to make a copy of it, rename it to something like "CathSimpleImager.py", and change your age to use the other file.
You also have a file called "JourneyDoor.py", and while I do not know whether any other age uses it (my script stops on the first error...), it is certainly bad style to just dump files into the global namespace. Since Uru juts puts all the Python files from all the PAK archives together, you should name all of them something like "CathFilename.py", so that another age that also needs a door for its journey, is not in conflict with your age.

EDIT2: There are definitely some differences between your xSimpleImager.py and the original one. The "glowing ring timer" stuff is missing, so installing your PAK file will probably break at least the glow animation of the image in Relto. I have no idea of you are relying on this. Is there any particular reason you even put the xSimpleImager.py in there?
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Re: The Cathedral Released!

Postby Doobes » Fri Mar 04, 2016 11:37 am

From what I can tell, JourneyDoor.py appears to be a custom script not associated with any other Age so it should be OK, although as diafero recommended, I'd add "Cath" or a variant at the beginning too so there's no future conflict. As for xSimpleImager, after doing some digging with PRPShop, it appears the Python File Mods in the current files conform to the regular global script, so removing the cathedral PAK version shouldn't break anything AFAIK.
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Re: The Cathedral Released!

Postby dendwaler » Fri Mar 04, 2016 12:04 pm

Journeydoor was a py file i made for Turtle isle, my first age.
I thought i changed the name in this age but i have not looked yet.
About xsimplemanager , i forgot, i tried to get the example (made by you Doobes) workingshort after he published it.
May be i removed some things because it did not work the first time.
And after it worked, i did not change it further.
You know, all the python is very hard for me, i dont have a background in programming.
So i was glad to have it working.
Thats why i solved most by using alcscipt, learning by doing.

I will change it but it will cost me some time, and i dont have time this weekend because i supposed to be ready.
Those wonderfull Worlds are called " Ages" , because that is what it takes to build one.

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Watch my latest Video Or even better..... watch the Cathedral's Complete Walkthrough made by Suleika!
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Re: The Cathedral Released!

Postby Karkadann » Fri Mar 04, 2016 2:18 pm

Im not sure about Blender but with Max the python files that start with an x don't need to be included in your python pac for some reason, I assume their somehow exported with the age.
although the ones that are age specific like the np01RPSGame python file (which has forty something line's to fill in) I often wondered how I could use those in an fan age
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Re: The Cathedral Released!

Postby Sirius » Fri Mar 04, 2016 3:55 pm

Karkadann wrote:Im not sure about Blender but with Max the python files that start with an x don't need to be included in your python pac for some reason, I assume their somehow exported with the age.


If it can help, here is a recap of how Python scripts work in Uru, and their naming conventions. It's technical stuff, but if you apply it, you'll save yourself and others a lot of headaches ;)


Python scripts are like sound files. They are assets that are shared amongst ALL Ages, so they are not "exported" with the Age, and Uru never cares about how they are named. The prefix given to Python files or sound files is only an indication of where this file is "supposed" to be used.
This is why any Age can play a D'ni imager sound named xImagerSmall_Loop (which is an "x" file), or grsnExteriorMusic_Loop (which is a Gahreesen file).
The same goes for Python file: any Age can call xSimpleImager.py, but any Age can also use grsnGetKI.py or, as in Karkadann's example, nb01RPSGame.py, despite these Python file being intended for use only in Gahreesen and Bevin/Neighborhood.

However, in both cases you must make sure Uru CAN load the wav file or Python file you want.
Sound files are easy, because they are all stuffed in the SFX folder, with only a prefix to identify which Age they are intended to be used into (which, by the way, is an horribly bad idea from Cyan - NO ONE wants a single folder with 200+ files in it).
Python files are a bit more tricky, because they are hidden in PAK files. That's where you must remember: all PAK files are just like a single big folder, and Uru never, ever, cares what you name the PAK file.

For instance, let's take the example of JourneyDoor used by Dendwaler:
Code: Select all
TurtleIsle.pak (last modified in 2011):
    JourneyDoor.py
Cathedral.pak (last modified in 2016):
    JourneyDoor.py


Uru will NEVER load the JourneyDoor script from TurtleIsle. Why ? Because it is in a PAK older than the Cathedral's one. So Uru thinks it's an outdated script, and will only load the most recent one. Now TurtleIsle and the Cathedral will both use the file inside Cathedral.pak.


This is where naming comes in handy. Prefixes are here to help you help Uru make good decisions.
That's why global files are marked with "x": it means a Python or sound file is used by several Ages and should NEVER be changed or redistributed. This is why only the Offline-KI ships these: to make sure everyone gets the correct version of the files no matter which Age you may or may not have installed.
There there are Python or sound files which are (theoretically) only used in your Age. Then the rule is simple: ALWAYS prefix your Python and sound files with a unique name that identifies your age, for instance, as Dendwaler did, CathBookGUI.py, or Cath_Ambiance.ogg (the only exception being the YourAge.py file). For the sake of conveniency, ALWAYS put your Python script into YourAge.pak. NEVER redistribute "x" files.
NEVER use Python files or sound files from other Fan-Ages, or files that don't have any prefix at all. Avoid if possible using files from Myst V or converted MOUL Ages, as not everyone might have these.

And if the PAK file or SFX folder you are redistributing contains a file which doesn't have any prefix... then you're doing things wrong (I'm looking at all the people who always name their sound file things like "Ambiance.wav", which is totally unhelpful and might conflict with other Ages :evil: ).


That's it !
Please don't feel like I'm suing anyone though, it's normal to make errors because of how bad Uru handles these things :D I just hope this post can clarify things and help avoid errors in the future ;)
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Re: The Cathedral Released!

Postby Doobes » Sat Mar 05, 2016 5:27 am

dendwaler wrote:About xsimplemanager , i forgot, i tried to get the example (made by you Doobes) workingshort after he published it.
May be i removed some things because it did not work the first time.
And after it worked, i did not change it further.


I understand. I just tried removing xSimpleImager from the Cathedral PAK file. The imagers still work perfectly without the custom version.

dendwaler wrote:You know, all the python is very hard for me, i dont have a background in programming.
So i was glad to have it working.
Thats why i solved most by using alcscipt, learning by doing.


Heh, that's exactly how I learned too. Even after all this time, I still only have a basic understanding of Python. :D

dendwaler wrote:I will change it but it will cost me some time, and i dont have time this weekend because i supposed to be ready.


Actually, most of these changes are minor adjustments in the AlcScript and a recompiling of the PAK file. Shouldn't take you more than a few minutes (depending on how long a new export will take).
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Re: The Cathedral Released!

Postby dendwaler » Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:04 am

The pak file is changed, this should be ok now.
It does not longer contain the xsimpleimager.py file and the other files do comply to the naming convention.

I packed a new version which makes use of the new pak file.
Furthermore I also repaired a texture in one of the towers.

The first announcement post is edited and the link refers to the new build now.
The old build is not longer available for download.
Those wonderfull Worlds are called " Ages" , because that is what it takes to build one.

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Watch my latest Video Or even better..... watch the Cathedral's Complete Walkthrough made by Suleika!
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