[Blender 2.79b] Triangulate the faces or not?

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Re: [Blender 2.79b] Triangulate the faces or not?

Postby Maroonroon » Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:13 am

Thank you very much for your answers, guys.

dendwaler wrote:if you look to it this way, then it might be possible for you to simplify the nodesystem for your moving door, if you only had choosen for different collider options.

I don't see how I can simplify anything in my sliding-door node tree (except the moving one shot)... The collider is "child" of the door, so it moves with it; I had not to move the collider in another node.
But if the collider and the door have the same shape, I can remove the collider and add bounds (bounding box or convex hull) to the door.

I took the decision to continu using triangle faces (but I have lot to do for optimizing my files).
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Re: [Blender 2.79b] Triangulate the faces or not?

Postby Aloys » Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:19 am

In my experience Korman is pretty good at exporting meshes that looks exactly the same as in Blender.

Then again I use a lot the Triangulate modifier in Blender for organic meshes, landscapes and rocks. As much as possible I try to model with quads, with a Triangulate on top just to be sure. It's very simple, it's automatic. It's a sure way to know exactly how your mesh will export. But most of the time it's only a couple objects in my scenes (usually it's the landscape). Other meshes work just fine.
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Re: [Blender 2.79b] Triangulate the faces or not?

Postby Maroonroon » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:29 am

In fact, I changed my mind... I'll use Ngones.
Testing my Ages, if something is wrong, I'll try to use some squares somewhere; and re-testing my Ages, if something is wrong again, I'll try to use some triangles somewhere.
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Re: [Blender 2.79b] Triangulate the faces or not?

Postby Sirius » Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:33 pm

Korman relies on Blender to convert NGons to triangles when exporting an Age. Since it's a Blender feature, this functionality is the same in all export plugins, such as the FBX exporter which is used by thousands of hobbyists and professionals. It's extremely unlikely to be buggy. So no need to worry, they will always be correctly exported.
Just pick whichever face type is more convenient to you. Quads are usually a bit easier to work with (mostly since they support ctrl-r loop cuts) and easier to UV-unwrap. Triangles and NGons are perfectly fine too if they fit in your workflow. But generally you don't need to overthink whether to use tris/quads/ngons, especially in Plasma.

I did a few tests with performances in Plasma, and these are the things I recommend to keep in mind when making meshes:
  • Always orient face normals correctly. Even for colliders it's important, as MOULa treats collider normals differently than PotS.
  • Don't feel stressed by the polygon count. Quads/NGons will always be split into triangles in Plasma, so they make no difference in performance. A few extra triangles will never be a problem anyway. The only two exceptions are using subsurf modifiers, and when you're using lots of duplicate cylindrical meshes (trees, for instance).
  • If you're using a subsurf modifier (for instance, to make terrain), try to combine it with a decimate modifier afterwards if you feel it has too many polygons.
  • Meshes encompassing your whole Age should remain basic. If part of a big mesh has a lot of polygons, simply separate the complex part from the rest of the mesh. This is also a good idea for colliders.
  • Colliders can have a lot of triangles (even if they are "triangle mesh" colliders), as long as they are not animated. If the object is complex, it's best to use a cylindrical collision around it like denDwaler said, because it will give more natural collisions for the player.
  • Animating complex colliders is generally a bad idea. If possible, animate only very simple colliders. Whenever possible, animate only convex hull or box colliders - NOT triangle mesh. Don't animate colliders if the animation is always running in a loop.
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Re: [Blender 2.79b] Triangulate the faces or not?

Postby Maroonroon » Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:51 pm

About bounds, if I have an object with only 3 rectangular faces (take a simple rectangle, remove the top, the bottom and one of the side faces -> like I did with my sliding doors), what ever I used triangles or squares faces; what is better to use as bounds? Boundary box (6 faces of a rectangle -> 12 triangles for the engines), Convex hull (6 faces of a rectangle -> 12 triangles for the engines), or Triangle mesh (the 3 faces of my object -> 6 triangles for the engines)?

Another question, but not related to this subject (I prefer not open a subject for a really simple question which will have a very simple answer):
For animations, If I want an animation of exactly 1 second and I set the first keyframe at "0", where do I should set the second keyframe?
At "29" or "30"?
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Re: [Blender 2.79b] Triangulate the faces or not?

Postby Sirius » Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:33 pm

Maroonroon wrote:what is better to use as bounds?

Good question, especially because bounds don't always use triangles. In your example, it's Box bounds, but that wouldn't make any visible difference anyway. Before I go into details, remember two things:

First, computers nowadays are fast enough to compensate for lack of optimization. As long as you know about a few pitfalls about Uru, your Age will likely run fine on most computers without any optimization.
Second, physics engines are smarter than you may think. Even if you have one very bad collider in your Age, this will have zero performance issues until an avatar or kickable object comes near it.
Because of this, in your door example, you could pick any bounds type and your Age would still run fine even if you had a hundred doors in your Age. This is because the initial mesh is extremely simple, and you're never going to collide against all doors at once.

Now, back to bound types in general... (from most performant to least performant):
Show Spoiler


But once again, physics performance is usually not an issue, EXCEPT for one pitfall... Dynamic physics (which includes kickables and animated colliders). This is the only case where bounds type and optimization really matters, because even more recent computers will have a hard time catching up.
Dynamic boxes and spheres are perfectly fine due to them being extremely simple shapes. Dynamic convex hull is a bit more taxing, but is tolerable. Dynamic triangle mesh is a bad idea, unless your object is extremely simple.

In general, don't overthink optimization - computers nowadays have plenty of headroom, so as long as you avoid the most obvious pitfalls you'll be fine. Just focus on having fun building.


Maroonroon wrote:For animations, If I want an animation of exactly 1 second and I set the first keyframe at "0", where do I should set the second keyframe?
At "29" or "30"?

30, I think. If you were to start the animation at frame 1, you would stop it at frame 31. (Usually you won't notice the difference anyway...)
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Re: [Blender 2.79b] Triangulate the faces or not?

Postby Emor D'ni Lap » Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:18 pm

Maroonroon wrote:For animations, If I want an animation of exactly 1 second and I set the first keyframe at "0", where do I should set the second keyframe?
At "29" or "30"?
Sirius is right, you still set the end keyframe at 30. Even though that gives you 31 keyframes total, it's the spaces between those keyframes that count!
The reason is the same as with motion picture film animation: you don't really have an image at keyframe 0, when your animation is not really moving; same is true for your final frame where you are essentially at a stop again. So, though your keyframes run 0 through 30 for a total of 31 keyframes, you'll still result in 30 frames of image - (x-1) - the number of spaces inbetween.
If your animation uses a rapidly moving object or camera, you'll see that the images are captured between the actual frame counts, not on them; this is why rendering an animation with image blur activated can work.
Last edited by Emor D'ni Lap on Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Blender 2.79b] Triangulate the faces or not?

Postby Maroonroon » Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:48 am

Thank you everybody. :)
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Re: [Blender 2.79b] Triangulate the faces or not?

Postby Tsar Hoikas » Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:45 pm

Be careful about assuming that frame 30 is exactly 1 second... Korman exports your animations at the framerate specified in the Blender timeline. So, if you've set that to 24fps, frame 24 is 1 second of animation.
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Re: [Blender 2.79b] Triangulate the faces or not?

Postby Maroonroon » Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:48 pm

Yes, thank you. I already set it to 30fps.
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