Surprising Hostility

[Robert The Rebuilder]

Bob - D'eux had pointed it out in a subsequent post, but it was this phrasing of yours that he found irksome:

Support is nice ... but I don't expect it... and I value the opinion of another Age producer* more than anyone else's ..

*producer does not include screen shots or teaser trailers ... it means someone with the balls to actually release their work to the community

If you could explain why you wrote that, it would help a great deal.

[boblishman]

it means exactly what it says ... that when people critise or make asumptions about other peoples abilities, that " I value the opinion of " some who has actually released an age ...

In no way was I saying that D'eux HAS to release his work .... indeed, as I stated VERY clearly in THIS post later in the same thread ... that is entirely HIS choice.

Both Andy and myself (to whom I assume Pappou means as the egotistical mediorce Age writers) have explained clearly in D'eux's original thread why we said what we said. We also stated VERY clearly that we hoped that he would continue to post updates because we both believe in the quality of the work he has shown us ... and that it is truely inspirational....

... shame the same can't be said about Pappou's "contributions" to the forum ...

Why Pappou has decided to start this thread is totally beyond me ... (and I immediately reported it to the mods as antagonistic when it first appeared ... and refrained from commenting on it - as it's contents are simply untrue and not worthy of comment. )

Maybe he (Pappou) would like to explain why he wishes to stir-up up old issues that seemed to have been resolved in the original thread ...
(I just wonder if he's actually bothered to read what was posted in the rest of the original thread ... )

Seems to me that Pappou's time would be better spent in Jennifer's classroom rather than trying to stir things up .... but then that's just the opinion of a mediocre, egocentric Age creator ...

[Tsar Hoikas]

*Comes out as a semiofficial GoW person*

Pimero, I would like to say that in the online world, as stated by Chacal, one does not receive verbal cues nor any information via body language (since there is no body). Thus, it becomes more difficult for others to interpret your words in the way that you meant them. Therefore, it becomes prudent to chose words carefully.

Continuing with this line of thinking: Bob, your comment was a bit harsh, IMO. I interpreted as bait to "start something," which I honestly do not believe your intention was (I say this because I often post questionable things of the same sort myself). I'm thinking that whole issue was due to a poorly composed post.

Now, for those of you who didn't try to ponder bob's meaning in his post, I can understand completely where he's coming from. It sounds to me like this: "I hear better the opinion of age writers whose work I can visit in Uru and see for myself to get a feeling for their style rather than just see in a picture since it's not the same." I'm not going to address "attacks" at D'eux since I'm not well enough informed on the subject to do so at this time.

Now as a general note about hostility on this forum: It. Will. Not. Be. Tolerated.

I think BAD has made himself clear several times that hostility, trolling, flaming, etc. won't be tolerated. The Moderators, Administrators, etc. will be glad to hear any valid grievances that you may have.

Thank you.

[Whilyam]

As, wow, we have a whole new topic/argument-- I think I should echo some thoughts here. I agree with boblishman that I take the opinion of people who have released their ages for me to poke around and explore in more than people who are still making ages (in ANY form. This isn't about D'eux. While I'd like to see his age as much as anyone else would, doing it well takes time).

That said, I disagree with the idea D'eux brought up. That it will be nearly impossible for individuals to make good-quality ages. I think D'eux's own age is a contradiction to that (unless he, in fact, IS a team of 40). I also want to make it clear I'm not insinuating "And I'M the glorious individual who shall make that age, for I am wonderful!" or anything like that. I'm still learning, but I think we can keep learning and keep building and keep getting better. The one thing, the powerful thing, that we have over Cyan is time. Cyan only has a short while to go through the process of concept, modeling, texturing, programming, and testing. We can take as long as we like. I also agree with boblishman that we need more inspiring people like D'eux.

[Jojon]

It is often much too easy to intinctively extrapolate what one reads and find oneself beating up a strawman of somebody you are in reality not necessarily in disagreement with. It doesn't help that different people and groups of people express themselves in different manners; just look at the typical example of how irony is totally lost on many people, whereas others practically use it as foundation for their language.

Oh, all the times I have argued long and hard with somebody on some issue, only to find in the end that we really meant the same thing but took our respective phrasing contrary to intention.

Not to say that there can't be true fundamental shisms, but I don't really see them here -- recall instead when the forums started and we had the autoritarian/anarchy clash. :9

[BAD]

This is what I would like to see done here. Anything less will be dealt with on an individual basis, and would be much worse for those involved if I have to resort to that.

1.) D'eux should express his feelings on the matter. I ask that we don't move this discussion along until D'eux has his say.

2.) Bob and Andy then can respond to him earnestly as to the meaning of the words D'eux felt were offensive. I don't care if either of you feel this is silly or needless, it is necessary to keep peace.

3.) I want (at least) an agreement to disagree. This is a minor issue and should not cause people to get bitter or leave.

4.) Continuance of work. Above all things, the work is most important. It is why your here. It doesn't matter if someones work is excellent or mediocre. What matters is we are accomplishing something that was thought impossible 3 years ago. We need every talent working. As artist and designers it is not going to be easy to get along, but if the effort is made, the results will more than make up for the compromises we have made.

Pappou, and anyone who may do this,

Please refrain from creating new threads to deal with an issue happening in a specific thread. If you feel someone is breaking rules, use the report function and explain there how you feel. This keeps you from receiving the criticism you are getting here now. The staff will decide how to handle the infraction, and your words will be taken under consideration. You won't be singled out as a whistle blower.

Again it is against the rules to pick on others on this board. Even if you throw a general comment on the behavior of a few, you are setting yourself up for this kind of stuff happening. So lets keep to the old adage of think twice post once. keep it cool guys.......

[andylegate]

Agreed.

[Marten]

I'm chewing on my feet now because when I used the "Search" function, it somehow totally missed the discussion in the "WIP" thread. I might have typed the apostrophe in the wrong place on one of the searches, I don't know.

Aside from that, I'll say nothing else - in agreement with BAD's moderation plan.

[boblishman]

Agreed

[Justintime9]

Hostility? what hostility?! */me looks around for someone hositle, and fails* I've been on this forum since it appeared, my age Idea was the first major project on GoW... and I have yet to see hostility in any shape or form... although, I havn't been on as much as I used to... so perhaps I have not seen it just yet...