Rabbit t-shirt to be ported in other shards

[GPNMilano]

No, because those first ages didn't have /garbage/ model data. That's like saying the model data is screwed up, therefore it is successful. Now, at the /time/ it was impressive as I said, but its hardly an actual full export - I was impressed because it was further than most had gotten - not because it was the end result. There was /more/ to do, though.

A successful export of an Age is an Age where the model data is intact. Footstep sounds are irrelevant, ambient sounds and clickables are irrelevant. Model data however, is important - your "clothing" export did not succeed in that check, either.

So, in actuality, at least from where I'm currently sitting, my POV on this particular issue, is that you Kaelis, wanted to make an aggressive jab at my statement of being able to create new clothing without the files. Tried to insist that my previous attempts at clothing were only successful because of the avatar files I was given by Andy prior to their release. I proved that incorrect with my early attempts at clothing, attempts I admit were sloppy even back then, even at the time I said "yeah they don't look good, but it can be done" but I was on the way to making clothing without the files. You acknowledge that yes, it was impressive but it needed work to pass your "successfully exported clothing definition" which really has no bearing on the early statement of you basically saying "Bullshit Chloe you only did it because of those files"

The question I really have for you now Kaelis is that do you really doubt, after all these years, that I couldn't just go back a step, knowing everything I know now, everything I have learned within the past two years of having access to the clothing files, do you honestly doubt that I couldn't just go back to that earlier step without the files and make it truly "fit" your "successful export" definition. Because that was my statement. That the plugin could export clothing, and we could make it without the clothing files. That I had started and made exports of clothing prior to the files being in my hands. You called bullshit and said I was only able to do it successfully because of the files.

I see now that really your earlier statement of calling bullshit was just your way of doubting that I had the talent and experience to do so. Or wanting to throw doubt on that idea. Sorry I don't play that game. Someone challenges me I step up and prove them wrong. Is that what you want me to really do here?

EDIT: deleted a hanging quotation mark

[kaelisebonrai]

You may be able to do it now - my point was you did not do it then. You had the files - you made it work, because you got the damn files from Andy.

You only made it work /then/ because you got the damn files from Andy - the older images were amazing - but you never actually got it finished before you got the files, now did you? it was never *done*. To say the one you so happily call a finished export an actual example of you being successful, is total bullshit. I was excited at the time because it was further than anyone had gotten - not because you'd finished it yet. You hadn't. No one had at the time.

But that's ok, because it has /always/ been ok for you to do things that you've bitched about the rest of us doing, hasn't it?

EDIT: lets get further into your wonderful latest post, why don't we.

Where the hell did you get the idea I'm in any way insulting your talent? You're reading things that simply aren't *there*.

What I'm specifically taking issue with, is the re-writing of history. You didn't make clothing work until /after/ you got the files. You probably *can* maybe make it work *now*. You're competent enough to do so.

But you didn't then. And that's never going to change.

[dendwaler]

Is this realy necessary Kaelis?
Be a bit more carefull with your personal business cards.
You may regret you lost them.

[Chuckles58]

And some may wonder why so many talented people have left the community (including Andy, by the way) due to personal strife and drama. Somehow this went from T-shirts to how an Indian headdress would be cool to dredging up old fights.

It is when wonderful things get done, due to the collaborative efforts that the community is at its best. These personal attacks show the community at its worst, and is why all this stops being fun and good people look for other things to do to amuse and entertain themselves.

As a non-techie cheering y'all all on from the peanut gallery, I felt something needed to be said.

[kaelisebonrai]

This stopped being "fun" a long time ago, really. About the time when I, too, was the target of a smear campaign. Guess that was a fun self fulfilling prophecy, for them, at least. And now, I'm bitter about many of the people in this community, pity that many of them are looked up to as being completely infallible.

However, this is no old fight - not in the slightest. This started, specifically in this thread, regarding the re-writing of history. I'm not attacking Chloe's person, or wasn't, until my previous post.

If Chloe comes forward and say that her attempt before she got the files was an attempt to make her character look like Rayman, then I'll have to admit I'm wrong - and that it was a successful export, I just get the feeling it wasn't intended to be that way.

I'm not doubting Chloe's talent in the slightest, she's quite talented, in fact. She's more than capable of making clothing now. She didn't manage to produce a successful export then, until after she got the files - which gave her the last bits of info she needed, but she did end up doing it. But any claim that she /did/ do it (at the time), without the files, is bogus.

I repeat, and perhaps this'll be in plain enough english for all of you.

"My only problem with this is with the re-writing of history".

I have, however, had to be on the defensive this entire discussion, admittedly, so has Chloe, but this is not a one-sided affair, now is it? Nor has any quarrel between myself or Chloe for the last few years. Now, as many times as Chloe and I have been in fights, there have been as many, if not more, where we have gotten on just fine,and even worked together - we just didn't happen to publicise this all over the forums. To suggest this is a long term grudge, or dredging up old fights is ludicrous, at best. This is a disagreement, about a /specific/ issue, that came up, in the post I initially quoted that got this clusterfuck of a discussion going. If people want to be fine with re-writing history at whim, that's their problem, but I'm certainly not going to let it pass unchallenged.

But, that's fine, lets do what loads of people have done in this god-forsaken community, for a long time - lets demonise kaelis.

I may be abrasive, blunt, and sometimes a little snarky - but I pride myself on being honest. I pride myself on being about truth, and about saying it like I see it. I'm not about the spin, not in the slightest. Pity I can't say that for many people in the uru community.

[Deledrius]

But, that's fine, lets do what loads of people have done in this god-forsaken community, for a long time - lets demonise kaelis.

If people demonise you here, it's because you came into a thread, posted off-topic accusations, and then continued to derail things with an argument. And it's not the first time you've done something like this.

I understand your desire to set the record straight on something you perceive as historically incorrect; I myself see these things as important as well. That does not excuse the rest of your behaviour, nor your attempt at setting yourself up as some sort of victim in an argument you started.

[kaelisebonrai]

Deledrius, what were my actions, exactly? Please, do enlighten me?

By the second post, I was put on the defensive. I responded to chloe as much as she responded to me.

Where in this thread did I "bring up old fights", as stated by chuckles?

Where in this thread did I do /anything/ but try to set the historical record straight, other than respond to your comment?

Where in this thread, did I, as Chloe has claimed, try to cast doubt on her ability to create clothing?

What, specifically, is my "behaviour that is not excused"?

[GPNMilano]

You may be able to do it now - my point was you did not do it then. You had the files - you made it work, because you got the damn files from Andy.

No you idiot. I made BRAND NEW CLOTHING WORK because of the files. I put aside the older stuff BECAUSE I WAS GIVEN THE FILES. The early clothing still sits in 3ds Max files and of there very own, i still had two months before Andy gave me files to work on them. Just because I didn't post publicly about it didn't mean I didn't continue. The work even continued for a bit AFTER andy gave me the files. Why?! Because everytime I brought up clothing or the KI I would get "We can't use them yet without a license. We won't use them yet without a license?" Because no one wanted to get off their damn throne and admit they really don't need a license to use them, They have permission from Cyan to use Cyan's assets within the Uru engine, that those files are Cyan's assets and that there's nothing stopping someone from using them. I had the brains to actually realize. Why the hell should I continue to placate those who can't put shit in the past, in the past and move forward. So yeah, I stopped using the old files and just started making new clothing from scratch using Cyan's method. Doesn't mean I never went back to those old files to try and fix stuff. Why? because I'm the type of person that actually WANTS to do something for myself and not have other people give me the keys to the kingdom. I want to learn how. After all the public and non public discussions I've had with you maybe that would have clued into your head, but apparently not.

You only made it work /then/ because you got the damn files from Andy - the older images were amazing - but you never actually got it finished before you got the files, now did you? it was never *done*.

Just because I don't post publicly about something doesn't mean I don't continue working on it. I think by now you should know that better than anyone. But again apparently not.

EDIT: lets get further into your wonderful latest post, why don't we.

Where the hell did you get the idea I'm in any way insulting your talent? You're reading things that simply aren't *there*.

What I'm specifically taking issue with, is the re-writing of history. You didn't make clothing work until /after/ you got the files. You probably *can* maybe make it work *now*. You're competent enough to do so.

But you didn't then. And that's never going to change.

Oh but we can. I can fire up old 3ds Max now, do a export of that SAME clothing file. Share that SAME clothing file with everyone else so that they can do their own export, and we can see if it falls into Kaelis description of "successful export without andy's files" or not. I'd be glad to do so. Happy even.

By the second post, I was put on the defensive. I responded to chloe as much as she responded to me.

Kaelis you started this thing by basically saying that I never exported clothing without Andy's files and it was bullshit to even say otherwise. You came into it antagonistically.

Where in this thread did I "bring up old fights", as stated by chuckles?

Just a few short posts ago you ranted bout people wanting to play with their "toy engine" so yeah, you brought up old fights that had no bearing on the current discussion.

Where in this thread, did I, as Chloe has claimed, try to cast doubt on her ability to create clothing?

You do so by stating that I, someone with years of expeirence in multiple areas of the plasma engine, am not capable of doing exactly what I said I was capable of doing early in the thread. Creating new clothing without Cyan's files. It had already started LONG before Cyan gave us the files. I proved that. Work continued up to Cyan handing us the files. My statement of "It can be done" I've done it." means just that. It can be done. I've done it. You coming in here and saying bullshit is basically saying that I'm both a liar for stating I can do it, and that I have. And then insulting the first early work I had done on it. Even though you admit it was farther than anyone else had gotten. It's still an insult.

[kaelisebonrai]

I stated one thing. You did not, at the time, produce a working clothing file before andy gave you the files. That's all.

Also. Regarding using unlicensed cyan stuff. Trusting cyan's good will is stupidity at best, because their word is not worth the paper it is not written on. They have gone back on their word many times, and have challenged age creation in the past.

Regarding you exporting it now and giving everyone the file now, I cannot see how that is relevant. As to the offtopicness of this argument, I fail to see how it is in any way more offtopic than the discussion of native American headdresses and, in fact, any clothing at all, except for the sam and max clothing in the start of the thread.

I repeat, I am not challenging your ability, or the possibility that any such clothing can be exported or has been exported at any time following 6 August 2010 AD, merely that no such complete and working export happened prior to said date. The export you have shown prior to that date is only a correct and working export if, and only if, you intended it to look like the main character from the game titled "Rayman". If some unseen export existed in the intervening time, I apologise for my mistake. I can only act on information that is known.

[Branan]

Everybody shut up. Drop it. If you want to keep arguing amongst yourselves take it to PM, but we don't need this argument here