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Re: Nexus demo, DiRT's Descent, and Hector's Cove !

PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:10 am
by Sirius
Sirius wrote:Oohh, shiny ! I came across this a while ago, but for some reason never took the time to have a deeper look and then forgot. Grmrbl, how come I'm always busy with real-life when cool things crop up...

Okay, so I had a better look (screw real life obligations !) and it looks promising. The problem is that SceneObjects and their modifiers are not read yet, so there isn't much I can do with it, unfortunately. And while the DIRT file format looks rather similar, there is no guarantee some parts haven't changed dramatically since then. Oh well...

Re: Nexus demo, DiRT's Descent, and Hector's Cove !

PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:48 am
by Paradox
Sirius wrote:
Sirius wrote:Oohh, shiny ! I came across this a while ago, but for some reason never took the time to have a deeper look and then forgot. Grmrbl, how come I'm always busy with real-life when cool things crop up...

Okay, so I had a better look (screw real life obligations !) and it looks promising. The problem is that SceneObjects and their modifiers are not read yet, so there isn't much I can do with it, unfortunately. And while the DIRT file format looks rather similar, there is no guarantee some parts haven't changed dramatically since then. Oh well...


Yeah, I'm not sure how well (if at all) the DIRT files are versioned, but it's obviously different from realMyst with the use of Python scripts and brain DLL files and stuff. They built a lot of stuff directly into the engine in those days, and then moved to a much more general approach for Uru.

Re: Nexus demo, DiRT's Descent, and Hector's Cove !

PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:17 am
by sarpedon2
This is the most fun I've had with Uru in a long, long, long time. Even in an unpolished state (unable to climb up the grating by the sluice gate to advance), this Demo certainly gives you a different feeling that Uru gave. Given its emphasis on more physical exploration, it even gives a different feeling from one that playing Myst or Riven would receive.
A few questions:
Anyone feel (whether this is due to playing in 3rd person, which helps give a different sense of scale to places), that the Great Shaft is much larger in scale than it was Uru and End of Ages? Or is it perhaps the reduced brightness enhances the sense of scale?
Also regarding the Intangibles attempt to recreate this area of MOUL, given that many areas require different avatar animations to advance (the pipes which the player must hang across along the sluice gate leading to the next cave), would the developers have reincorporated these animations, along with an inventory, or would they have adjusted the areas to suit the current state of MOUL?

Re: Nexus demo, DiRT's Descent, and Hector's Cove !

PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:28 pm
by Deledrius
sarpedon2 wrote:Anyone feel (whether this is due to playing in 3rd person, which helps give a different sense of scale to places), that the Great Shaft is much larger in scale than it was Uru and End of Ages? Or is it perhaps the reduced brightness enhances the sense of scale?

The version(s) we got were chopped-up pieces of this one, it seems. The original is still the best; it's sad it wasn't used as intended.

Re: Nexus demo, DiRT's Descent, and Hector's Cove !

PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:11 am
by Sirius
sarpedon2 wrote:Anyone feel (whether this is due to playing in 3rd person, which helps give a different sense of scale to places), that the Great Shaft is much larger in scale than it was Uru and End of Ages? Or is it perhaps the reduced brightness enhances the sense of scale?

I'm sure the Shaft itself is the same size and length. However as you noted there are a few things that make it feel larger: the 3rd person camera (which also prevents us from getting a good view of it), the lack of light (also, all the support structures with firemarbles on them from Myst V are gone), the black fog (contrarily to Myst V's weird green fog), and the lack of intermediary Tomahn when you take the elevator.

sarpedon2 wrote:Also regarding the Intangibles attempt to recreate this area of MOUL, given that many areas require different avatar animations to advance (the pipes which the player must hang across along the sluice gate leading to the next cave), would the developers have reincorporated these animations, along with an inventory, or would they have adjusted the areas to suit the current state of MOUL?

Hmmm, I think the Intangibles are more focused on new Ages, while Chloe (GPNMilano) is in charge of the Descent stuff ? Haven't heard about Chloe in a while, though, either she is very quiet or she didn't have time to work on this stuff in the recent months/years.
Anyway, I can't speak for them, but I can say having all those animations into MOULa is completely doable - that's how we fixed the Gahreesen Wall Climb in Deep Island (despite the engine theoretically not supporting it).
But just because it's doable doesn't mean it's easy. Most of those animations are completely buggy even in the DiRT demo (which wasn't even intended to be multiplayer at the time ?). The Intangibles may feel their time is better spent working on other puzzles.
As for the inventory itself, this is on the todo list since one of the new Ages require it. But I guess it's fairly low priority since the DiRT demo almost doesn't use it, and it's a complex mechanism. Also, this would require a UI, fixes to ensure it works in multiplayer, etc - all a lot of work.

Deledrius wrote: The original is still the best; it's sad it wasn't used as intended.

Well, Myst V got a few improvements, like better models and reflections for the rising floor, a Tomahn along the way, structures inside the Shaft itself, etc. And I think I actually enjoyed having Esher around during the game (despite how annoying he can be sometimes).
But I get what you mean. Myst V removes too much, and that impacts the overall "coherence" of the Age. The whole "Descent" experience is about fighting your way to D'ni by overcoming the difficult terrain, broken machines (that may or may not be of use to you), the darkness, etc (and even overcoming Plasma's bugs contribute to that feeling !). Removing all the secondary broken stuff and abruptly ending the trip in front of a closed door makes it much less enjoyable.

Re: Nexus demo, DiRT's Descent, and Hector's Cove !

PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:32 pm
by Deledrius
Sirius wrote:
sarpedon2 wrote:Anyone feel (whether this is due to playing in 3rd person, which helps give a different sense of scale to places), that the Great Shaft is much larger in scale than it was Uru and End of Ages? Or is it perhaps the reduced brightness enhances the sense of scale?

I'm sure the Shaft itself is the same size and length. However as you noted there are a few things that make it feel larger: the 3rd person camera (which also prevents us from getting a good view of it), the lack of light (also, all the support structures with firemarbles on them from Myst V are gone), the black fog (contrarily to Myst V's weird green fog), and the lack of intermediary Tomahn when you take the elevator.

It really shows how important details are in art design!

Sirius wrote:
Deledrius wrote: The original is still the best; it's sad it wasn't used as intended.

Well, Myst V got a few improvements, like better models and reflections for the rising floor, a Tomahn along the way, structures inside the Shaft itself, etc. And I think I actually enjoyed having Esher around during the game (despite how annoying he can be sometimes).
But I get what you mean. Myst V removes too much, and that impacts the overall "coherence" of the Age. The whole "Descent" experience is about fighting your way to D'ni by overcoming the difficult terrain, broken machines (that may or may not be of use to you), the darkness, etc (and even overcoming Plasma's bugs contribute to that feeling !). Removing all the secondary broken stuff and abruptly ending the trip in front of a closed door makes it much less enjoyable.

It made the entire thing into an area that serves as a connection/bridge Age to the other Ages, a sort of semi-progressive hub, instead of the focus of the journey itself. That wildly changes the tension, tone, and overall purpose of the Shaft in the players' experience.

Re: Nexus demo, DiRT's Descent, and Hector's Cove !

PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:00 am
by Ehren
I know this is an old-ish thread, but it is pretty awesome to see this stuff right? Oddly though, each page seems to have its own fog settings rather than the entire age. I do like the "don't do that" message if you try to page out an area you are in.

I figured out you can type "GetWorldPOS Simon" into the command prompt to get your avatar's current coordinates. Can't figure out moving the avatar to another specific coordinate though. If anyone knows how to do something like this please tell me!

Also, after Hector Cover does this sound familiar to anyone haha: https://youtu.be/0Haxy5PvCuk?t=12

Really want to be able to drive the Scarab now, wonder what it looks like whole. Also to see the old gtgh (Great Tree Guild Hall), listen to gtghTreeAmb.WAV, nice atmosphere.

Re: Nexus demo, DiRT's Descent, and Hector's Cove !

PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:39 pm
by sarpedon2
Anyone know what was suppose to be after the Bug Cave?

Also while the 3rd person camera is not to everyone's liking (it can make maneuvering difficult compared to first person), it really does enhance the scale of the environments, certainly the Bug Cave with the almost oppressive darkness. I wonder if there was a way to have made Uru's 3rd person perspective work without losing what made it an effective perspective?

Re: Nexus demo, DiRT's Descent, and Hector's Cove !

PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:53 pm
by Deledrius
sarpedon2 wrote:I wonder if there was a way to have made Uru's 3rd person perspective work without losing what made it an effective perspective?

What are the faults you think need addressing?

Re: Nexus demo, DiRT's Descent, and Hector's Cove !

PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:10 pm
by Ehren
WHOA! The diving underwater thing is crazy! I mean the controls are amazingly AWFUL, it took a lot of work to get the avatar into a sane position since he can point any direction, not to mention up and down controls being reversed. Oh and using spacebar to swim faster AND fighting the current! Eh, still interesting to see in this little prototype though.

While in the water, press the back (down) arrow key to dive.

UnderwaterBrightened.jpg
Brightened up with an image editing program to make it easier to see, I did the best I could... but I'm new to any sort of photo manipulation.
UnderwaterBrightened.jpg (140.45 KiB) Viewed 7763 times