Clean out ULM

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Clean out ULM

Postby Justintime9 » Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:54 am

Ok, this is something that's been bugging me lately... You've all probably used ULM, and I've noticed that there's some of the ages that were on there when I first got ULM (which was quite a while ago) and most of those ages arent even making any more progress! they just sit in ULM and take up space... I wouldn't mention this if I werent so particlar, but ages like Vaiskor... it's nothing but a bunch of repeatedly textured mountains! and, there are ages that people are working on GoW that don't even put them on ULM, just scattered who knows where... and it's just sort of not working, like, one day I'll find some age on GoW, and they're all scattered throughout the forums, in their own threads... isn't there some way people can put their works in progress in a place where anyone can see it, and make comments on it? and shouldn't we clean out ULM?
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Re: Clean out ULM

Postby andylegate » Thu Mar 13, 2008 4:46 am

I believe that if there are Ages on the ULM whos mirrors are broken, stay broken, and all attempts to contact the writer of that Age have failed, then yes they more than likely should be removed, or at least put in a "Inactive" status on the Website and not reported by the ULM program until the writer contacts Trylon.

On the other hand, if an Age is on the ULM, and the mirror works, even if you have not seen any progress or changes whatsoever, I don't think anyone should remove it, unless the creator(s) of that Age want it removed. Just because an Age has not progressed, should not be a valid reason to remove it from the ULM, that's not really fair, nor nice for that mater.
Even though there may not be much there, someone took their personal time to try and create something. It is also a mater of history, and shows how things were as compared to how things are now.
So I don't think they should be removed just because there has been no visable progress. As long as the link to it works, it should be left alone. Maybe moved to a section called "Pre-GoW Plugin Ages" or something like that.

As far as all the other Ages that other Writers are working on, but are not up on the ULM, keep in mind that many of those Writers don't want to place their creations on the ULM until they are ready. The downloads here and there on the forum are there not because they are ready for people (with one exception, and that was me as I didn't have server space at the time, but that's changed and my Ages are on the ULM now) to look at them as a final product yet.
They post them here and there to ask questions, troubleshoot problems, or to get opinions.
However, you will most likely have a tough time forcing a Writer to post their Age on the ULM simply so that others can check the progress of it.
There are several Ages being worked on by Writers who are taking there time for one reason or another. They have RL constraints that allow them only a little time here and there to work on their Age. Yet even others are taking it slow and easy to make sure they have a quality Age before they are done.
Then there are advances in the plugin. Every time the Tool Team comes out with a new plugin so far, it has always contained new features that Writers want to use in their Ages.
A good example of that was the first plugin that allowed us to put sounds in the Ages. The problem is that the plugin also changed the way that many things were done, and also allowed for better texturing of the Ages. So many Writers that were close to being done, or had made a lot of progress had to go back and re-do many things and make it even better.
The latest plugin is yet another fine example: animated textures.
I'm learning how to use them right now so I can make the water in my Ages animated. It's also a chance for me to go back and make things look better too.

Last, but not least, is server space issue. Keep in mind in order to put the Age on the ULM, you have to have your own server space somewhere. The ULM does NOT host the files. It simply acts as a coordinator for where they files are. Many people can't afford server space, or have to rely on charity from others.
The Maintainers just now found a way to use our server space with the ULM so that the server does not crash. We have tons of room now, and Nynaveve our Guildmaster Webmaster is offering room for aspiring Writers for their Ages. So hopefully this will help those that need the server space.
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Re: Clean out ULM

Postby Trylon » Thu Mar 13, 2008 4:53 am

Justin,
the same thing has been bothering me for quite some time now.
Now that we actually have some new ages, I will proceed to remove some of the ancient ages.

EDIT:
Cleanup done - I deleted all the ages from the ancient times.
I can undelete them if neccesary though.
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Re: Clean out ULM

Postby andylegate » Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:20 am

Ouch.

May none of my Ages ever be considered Ancient and simply removed. :cry:
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Re: Clean out ULM

Postby Aloys » Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:30 am

You have only delete the Ages whose mirrors were down right?
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Re: Clean out ULM

Postby greendragoon » Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:28 am

I think it would be cool if there was a way to differentiate between standard ages and Maintainer approved ages. Maybe they get a different icon. (It would be really fun if in the future we found a way to put a maintainer stamp on the book that appears in your relto?) That way the more common explorer knows the difference between completed ages and ancient/wip ages.

I do understand your saying. It's hard to get an impression of the GoW's current activities from what's currently listed on ULM.
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Re: Clean out ULM

Postby Zander » Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:43 am

Mm. While on the whole I'm with Andy--no-one's creations should simply be shuffled off out of hand, and the older Ages do have their interesting features--I can see points on the other side too. Someone coming to the ULM fresh, and deciding to try, say, Vaiskor, Setal Gahmarin and Eder Rilteh Inaltahv would go away with a very different idea of our current capabilities than someone who's seen the more recent stuff. I think some way of maybe giving the date last modified would be a useful addition, if it could be worked.
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Re: Clean out ULM

Postby Nynaveve » Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:17 am

I know this might sound kind of complicated, but can we just divide things up into, say, 3 versions of the ULM? One for "ancient" work, one for Maintainer approved, and one for everything else (WIP, etc)? This way we can clearly document where we have been and where we are now. If someone new comes along we can say "Go look at this ULM to see what we can do now" and when they are done we can say "Now go look at this one to see what we used to be like".

We already have 3 ULM's up and running if you include the one for the competition. We just need to rearrange which one has which mirrors stored in it. All we'd have to do is make sure users of ULM know they have 3 options for their settings, which we can post in the installation instructions.

Alternatively, we could take the approach of using different icons in the ULM. Is there a way to program into the ULM that after X amount of time with no new versions, the Age becomes "old" and the icon changes to reflect this? Or maybe have on for a Maintainer approved Age?

Just a couple thoughts...
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Re: Clean out ULM

Postby Trylon » Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:45 am

Actually, we need categories for ages, and the dates of the ages listed.
Additionally, the maintainer approvals will be handy to include.

I'll work on implementing that in the next ulm version.
I'll also try to implement a way to upload ages onto the ulm libary through the http interface, so that the server can store the files, if the user chooses it. (That way there can be a safeguard against mirrors dropping).

Probably some in-client version management would be neat too.

Oh, and most of the ages I removed were from people who have vanished from the scene effectively.
I can easily restore it if neccesary. If someone wants to undelete the ages that don't have broken/dysfunctional mirrors, give me a pm, and I'll give you some temporary admin powers, to do that.
One day I ran through the cleft for the fiftieth time, and found that uru held no peace for me anymore.
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Re: Clean out ULM

Postby Zander » Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:27 am

You know what's nice? Seeing a bunch of people come up with suggestions, and then seeing someone pick the best ones and say "right, I'll work on that for the next release."

After a year on the MOUL forums, it's kind of like an epiphany.:)

Thank you, Trylon!
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