Sharing a PRP file between two Ages

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Sharing a PRP file between two Ages

Postby Maroonroon » Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:23 pm

Hello.

Some Blender objects will be in two of my Ages, at the exact same position...
So, in one of those Ages, I put those objects in a "Page" (a PRP file) which will be used by the other Age; but I have three questions:

1) I don't understand (language barrier) the description of the "Local Only" case in the "World -> Plasma Age" of the "Properties" window.
Can you explain me what this case is for, please?

2) In the other Age I want this PRP file to be used, what should I do to use this file, please?

3) If I want to use an object in two different Ages but not at the same position, what should I do to use this object in one of those Ages if this object is in a PRP file from the other Age, please?
Last edited by Maroonroon on Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
:arrow: I'm working with "Blender 2.49b + PyPRP", and with "Blender 2.79b + Korman, on "Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 x64".
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Re: [Korman] Sharing a PRP file between two Ages

Postby Deledrius » Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:59 pm

What you are asking to do is somewhere between inadvisable and not directly possible. Objects in Uru generally speaking don't exist in some platonic ideal, and can't be shared the way you want between two Ages. Uru also tends to treat Ages as being entirely separate entities with almost no sharing between them, outside of the Global Ages which are especially "blessed". That said, there are some ways you can hack around these limitations and assumptions, but they aren't without drawbacks.

However, there is probably a better solution. Blender allows you to link objects and object data from one blend to another, essentially embedding the object from a blend file inside of another blend, and when the original blend is updated the embedded object is likewise updated. This might be a useful way for you to create an object that appears identically in two separate Age projects. Linking even uses the original object's position, so they will both appear in the same place. As long as the placement is correct in the original, it will be in sync. You can append the object if you want to be able to manipulate an independent copy instead.

You can find more information here: https://easyblend.org/html/data_system/ ... aries.html

As for the Local Only flag on a page, I don't recall. I will need to check on that one (but you probably don't need to worry about it). I'm not aware of any Cyan Ages using this feature.


Incidentally, I'm curious if you're dabbling with making Obduction seeds in Uru... ;)
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Re: [Korman] Sharing a PRP file between two Ages

Postby Maroonroon » Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:48 pm

Thank you for your answer, Deledrius. :)

Deledrius wrote:Blender allows you to link objects and object data from one blend to another, essentially embedding the object from a blend file inside of another blend, and when the original blend is updated the embedded object is likewise updated. This might be a useful way for you to create an object that appears identically in two separate Age projects. Linking even uses the original object's position, so they will both appear in the same place. As long as the placement is correct in the original, it will be in sync. You can append the object if you want to be able to manipulate an independent copy instead.

OK. So, "Link" if the position is the same (the objects are synchronized) , or "Append" if it isn't (the objects aren't synchronized).
I didn't know the difference between Link and Append, so I didn't used them in Blender 2.79b; and finaly I forgot about them...
In Blender 2.49b it was written "Append or Link" which I only used to add the "Avatar" :P
Now I know. lol

Deledrius wrote:As for the Local Only flag on a page, I don't recall. I will need to check on that one (but you probably don't need to worry about it). I'm not aware of any Cyan Ages using this feature.

Thanks.

Deledrius wrote:Incidentally, I'm curious if you're dabbling with making Obduction seeds in Uru... ;)

:D

Thank you very much! 8-)
:arrow: I'm working with "Blender 2.49b + PyPRP", and with "Blender 2.79b + Korman, on "Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 x64".
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Re: [Korman] Sharing a PRP file between two Ages

Postby Deledrius » Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:32 pm

Maroonroon wrote:
Deledrius wrote:As for the Local Only flag on a page, I don't recall. I will need to check on that one (but you probably don't need to worry about it). I'm not aware of any Cyan Ages using this feature.

Thanks.

Looks like this flag is only useful for small Ages with absolutely no stateful information in them at all, including animations. Even the Spyroom, The Ahnonay Cathedral, and the Baron City Office are disqualified from being Local Only. You will probably never need to enable this feature. :)

Maroonroon wrote:
Deledrius wrote:Incidentally, I'm curious if you're dabbling with making Obduction seeds in Uru... ;)

:D

Thank you very much! 8-)

Glad I'm not the only one thinking about this. ;)
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Re: Sharing a PRP file between two Ages

Postby Sirius » Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:30 am

About Blender linking: I don't know how many objects you intend to share between two files, but if you have many objects I recommend sharing a whole scene instead of manually picking the objects you want to share. This will be much more manageable if you want to add new objects afterwards:
Show Spoiler

Hmm, I'm not sure if I explained it correctly - if you want I can explain in French. If you have only a few objects to share this might be too annoying to setup, but it's good to know it's an option when sharing a lot of objects is required.


Deledrius wrote:Incidentally, I'm curious if you're dabbling with making Obduction seeds in Uru... ;)

Personally I was thinking how in Myst 1 there are a lot of similarities between Myst Island and the link-in point of Selenictic and Mechanical, for instance. I loved when I used the Linking Book for the first time, and thought "well, that didn't do much" before turning around and realizing the whole Age changed :shock: :)

Maroonroon wrote:OK. So, "Link" if the position is the same (the objects are synchronized) , or "Append" if it isn't (the objects aren't synchronized).

Yes. Keep in mind that this also means changes to meshes, materials and textures will be synchronized between the two files only if you used "Link". If you used "Append", editing the object in one file will not synchronize it with the other.
Another thing to keep in mind (since we're talking about Obduction's Seeds...) : "Linking" objects between scenes only apply to Blender. Objects will NOT be synchronized in both Uru Ages - they will be perfect duplicates, but animations for instance will not be synchronized between the two Ages.
(There are a few ways to synchronize objects or other informations between two Ages, but it's usually tedious or not perfect. I recall Complete Chronicles makes this especially annoying for fan Ages.)
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Re: Sharing a PRP file between two Ages

Postby Maroonroon » Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:45 am

Thank you for your answer, Sirius. :)

Sirius wrote:About Blender linking: I don't know how many objects you intend to share between two files, but if you have many objects I recommend sharing a whole scene instead of manually picking the objects you want to share. This will be much more manageable if you want to add new objects afterwards:
Show Spoiler

Hmm, I'm not sure if I explained it correctly - if you want I can explain in French. If you have only a few objects to share this might be too annoying to setup, but it's good to know it's an option when sharing a lot of objects is required.

This! :)

Sirius wrote:
Deledrius wrote:Incidentally, I'm curious if you're dabbling with making Obduction seeds in Uru... ;)

Personally I was thinking how in Myst 1 there are a lot of similarities between Myst Island and the link-in point of Selenictic and Mechanical, for instance. I loved when I used the Linking Book for the first time, and thought "well, that didn't do much" before turning around and realizing the whole Age changed :shock: :)

:)

Sirius wrote:
Maroonroon wrote:OK. So, "Link" if the position is the same (the objects are synchronized) , or "Append" if it isn't (the objects aren't synchronized).

Yes. Keep in mind that this also means changes to meshes, materials and textures will be synchronized between the two files only if you used "Link". If you used "Append", editing the object in one file will not synchronize it with the other.
Another thing to keep in mind (since we're talking about Obduction's Seeds...) : "Linking" objects between scenes only apply to Blender. Objects will NOT be synchronized in both Uru Ages - they will be perfect duplicates, but animations for instance will not be synchronized between the two Ages.
(There are a few ways to synchronize objects or other informations between two Ages, but it's usually tedious or not perfect. I recall Complete Chronicles makes this especially annoying for fan Ages.)

OK. If animations are not synchronized it isn't a problem for me, as I wanted to share this way only not animated objects.

- For many not animated objects: Your spoiler content, if objects (meshes, materials and textures) and their positions are strictly the same in both Ages Blend files (the objects are synchronized).
- For only a few not animated objects: "Link" if an object (meshes, materials and textures) and its position are strictly the same in both Blend files (the objects are synchronized).
- For the other not animated objects: "Append" if the object or its position is different in any way (the objects aren't synchronized).
- For the animated objects (if any): "Append" + making the animations in both Blend files.

Thank you very much, Sirius! 8-)


Deledrius wrote:Looks like this flag is only useful for small Ages with absolutely no stateful information in them at all, including animations. Even the Spyroom, The Ahnonay Cathedral, and the Baron City Office are disqualified from being Local Only. You will probably never need to enable this feature. :)

Thanks! :)

Deledrius wrote:Glad I'm not the only one thinking about this. ;)

I'm not dabbling with making Obduction seeds in Uru; there's just a big relationship between those two Ages. ;)


@Admin: Maybe this topic should be moved to the "Building" section... Sorry. :oops:
:arrow: I'm working with "Blender 2.49b + PyPRP", and with "Blender 2.79b + Korman, on "Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 x64".
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Re: Sharing a PRP file between two Ages

Postby Deledrius » Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:40 am

Sirius wrote:Personally I was thinking how in Myst 1 there are a lot of similarities between Myst Island and the link-in point of Selenictic and Mechanical, for instance. I loved when I used the Linking Book for the first time, and thought "well, that didn't do much" before turning around and realizing the whole Age changed :shock: :)

Good observation. I liked those spots, too. I wonder if they were leftover from the Ages of Myst concept.

Sirius wrote:(There are a few ways to synchronize objects or other informations between two Ages, but it's usually tedious or not perfect. I recall Complete Chronicles makes this especially annoying for fan Ages.)

IIRC, basically the only thing that multiple Ages have access to for sharing information is the player's Personal Age SDL and Chronicle nodes. It's not ideal, because it overloads the Personal Age as storage for other Ages, but most importantly it's not multiplayer-friendly; the player has access to their own Chronicles, but other players do not, and strictly-speaking Ages never communicate, it's players whose scripts are running within a specific Age. The game doesn't really have a good provision for a player to act on information from another Age, and especially not one that isn't a personal instance.
Last edited by Deledrius on Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sharing a PRP file between two Ages

Postby Maroonroon » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:08 am

In fact, if I wanted to share a PRP, it was to have my files having a smaller total size; but if I can't, well, I can't... It doesn't matter. ;)

Just for information, one of those Ages is public and the other is private.

All my Ages will have a online and a offline version.
The online version (today + IC) will of course be used for MOULa, the other shards, and in some cases maybe (but not yet sure) for Drizzle*.
The offline version (a day before today + well... IC or OOC, who knows...) will be used for my website background (more info on my website -> in French or English) and in some cases maybe (but not yet sure) for Drizzle*.
*: For Drizzle it will be either the online version, either the offline version; it will depend on the differences between their versions, which are because of the background story developed on my website... I try to reduce the differences as much as possible.

EDIT:
Me (on my website) wrote:The background story:
Show Spoiler
:arrow: I'm working with "Blender 2.49b + PyPRP", and with "Blender 2.79b + Korman, on "Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 x64".
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Re: Sharing a PRP file between two Ages

Postby Deledrius » Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:30 pm

Maroonroon wrote:All my Ages will have a online and a offline version.
The online version (today + IC) will of course be used for MOULa, the other shards, and in some cases maybe (but not yet sure) for Drizzle*.
The offline version (a day before today + well... IC or OOC, who knows...) will be used for my website background (more info on my website -> in French or English) and in some cases maybe (but not yet sure) for Drizzle*.
*: For Drizzle it will be either the online version, either the offline version; it will depend on the differences between their versions, which are because of the background story developed on my website... I try to reduce the differences as much as possible.

Drizzle is a program... so I'm not sure what you mean.

Anyway, with Korman you can export to both PotS and MOULa formats pretty easily. No need to have "separate" versions of your Age. That means you can try to get your Age on MOULa, or submit it to Deep Island, or for offline play etc. all with the same blend.
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Re: Sharing a PRP file between two Ages

Postby Maroonroon » Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:41 pm

Deledrius wrote:Drizzle is a program... so I'm not sure what you mean.

Anyway, with Korman you can export to both PotS and MOULa formats pretty easily. No need to have "separate" versions of your Age. That means you can try to get your Age on MOULa, or submit it to Deep Island, or for offline play etc. all with the same blend.

I know that there's no "need" to have separate versions of my Ages, but there "will".
As I said, there's some differences between the "game" version and the "website" version.
The game version is what will be used for MOULa and the other shards.
The website version is what will be used for my website.
For the offline game, using the Drizzle program, I want players to have the website version; to have the game version, players will have to play on MOULa or on another shard.

That being said, there's only one Blend file for each Sequence Prefix.
EDIT:
Uru:CC Sequence Prefixes:
Show Spoiler
Last edited by Maroonroon on Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:55 am, edited 4 times in total.
:arrow: I'm working with "Blender 2.49b + PyPRP", and with "Blender 2.79b + Korman, on "Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 x64".
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